Twilight Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Download the Twilight Strategy e-book!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?  (Read 8058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Julio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
  • You are not a cylon!
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
    • Partidas al Twilight Struggle
What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« on: January 22, 2013, 02:23:50 pm »
0

Regarding one thread of this forum about headlining CIA in Turn1, what would you do as USSR (how would you plan turn1) in this situation?
Of course you may suggest other initial setup and headline.

Regular game with no extra influence. China card in soviet hand.

USSR hand:
Europe scoring
1Ops Blockade
1Ops Romanian Abdication
2Ops Independent Reds
2Ops Special relationship
3Ops Socialist Governments
3Ops Desestalinizaction
3Ops De Gaulle
4Ops China card

Initial setup:
USSR: 4 E. Germany, 4 Poland, 1 Yugoslavia.
USA: 4 W. Germany, 3 Italy.

USSR headline: Socialist Governments: -2 Italy, -1 W. Germany.
USA headline: CIA Created: +1 Italy.

URSS AR1 ???



I did the Iranian coup successfully and forgot about Europe in early war. Unfortunately it was scored again in turn3.
I finally lost by Wargames in turn 9  :'(
   
Logged
Partidas al Twilight Struggle. Spanish blog with AAR of some games and other TS considerations.

Cal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +55
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 04:26:33 pm »
0

I'd say use DeGaulle to coup either Italy or Iran, use Special Relationship to coup somewhere in Asia/Mid East to get the defcon down. If the defcon gets to 2, play Romanian Abdication for the event, then use De-Stalinization to put the 4influence in Yugoslavia/Romania wherever it's needed: slip into Thailand, Algeria, South America, wherever. Then you can play a painless Independent Reds before Europe Scoring. Or you can punt Europe Scoring a little earlier, maybe before you use De-Stalinization.

Blockade is the hold card. Hope you get Red Scare next turn.
Logged

SnowFire

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 04:26:51 pm »
0

Coup Iran.  Your odds are better of it being effective (1 US Influence vs. 2), and that hand gives you an excellent shot at taking France along with a side shot at getting W. Germany anyway, so you don't need Italy to get a Europe Dom.  (De-stal a single influence into France, or use DeGaulle if the US jumped in too fast and you think he doesn't have a 3 ops.)  Plus no CIA to worry about later.

On the downside you probably need to blow China for the Iran coup since you need to keep both De-stal and Degaulle as events, but oh well.
Logged

MarlesChartel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
  • Wargameroom username: MarlesChartel
  • Respect: +20
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 06:23:12 pm »
0

The Soviets don't have enough cards in hand. They should have 8 plus the China card.
Logged

Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 06:33:08 pm »
0

The Soviets don't have enough cards in hand. They should have 8 plus the China card.

They do have eight cards plus the China card. The Europe Scoring card may have 0 OPs but it definitely counts as a card.
Logged

Eruantalon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Wargameroom username: Janusz_Wójciak
  • Respect: +14
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 01:16:12 am »
+1

Headline Euro Scoring to save ops. Coup with Soc. Gov, secure ME Domination ASAP and then expand to Asia. Play Destal when Defcon goes to 2, placing one in Angola (in case you won't get Decol). If you like to place presure and don't fear being  Realigned - 1 to Algieria as well. otherwise - South America. Make sure to Control Venezuela to avoid AR7 into Columbia, when there's 1 of Your inf.
Logged

Cal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +55
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 03:00:14 am »
+1

I think in this situation headlining Socialist Governments is a mistake.  Socialist Governments can indeed be a very strong headline, especially on Turn1 when it sets up an easy Italy coup, but it needs a hand of very strong cards to back it up. The USSR would need a 4-op card (Nuclear Test Ban, US-Japan Pact or even Red Scare/Purge) to coup Italy, then move in to France, then threaten activating Blockade or just forcing their way to take W. Germany. Substituting the China Card only gets you so far.

Headlining Europe Scoring or Romanian Abdication is much better. (To set up De-Stal influence.)
Logged

SnowFire

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 12:32:53 pm »
0

Kinda disagree there.  In fact, when the USSR has Europe Scoring on turn 1, that's pretty much the classic time to unleash a Soc Gov headline (although De-stal in the hand weirdly makes this harder since you don't want to use it for 3 ops).  From the US Opening setup, Marshall Plan was an unlikely headline, so there's usually going to be a 1 influence American Italy on AR1, you will coup it with China and likely collect Italy (and it will be safe from coups), pick a minor (Romanian Abdication or just take Spain), then you will score Europe doms the rest of the game.  You don't even necessarily get screwed out of Asia...  the US will collect Afghanistan & Iran, yes, but will probably not bolt for India right away to guard against Indo-Pak War, so your De-stal influence (given a successful Italy coup) could well be something like 1 India / 1 Thailand / 2 South America, depending on the DEFCON when played.
Logged

MarlesChartel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
  • Wargameroom username: MarlesChartel
  • Respect: +20
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 02:37:31 pm »
0

Sorry, I missed the China card.
I think that pushing for Europe is worth it.
Your coup of Italy with the China card is basically guaranteed to succeed, since he can't get back in if you kick him out, and you can just move in. You can probably use De Gaulle to take France. Hold blockade until you draw RSP, and play them together to try to kick the US out of W Germany to go for a Europe control win.
Logged

Nightlyraver

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 05:37:41 pm »
0

I don't like gunning for Europe here.  You are way short of ops and you would really prefer to keep China.

I would probably dump Europe Scoring as the headline.  You really need the ops from Socialist Gov't.  And using a scoring card as the headline means that you don't have to waste an AR using it.  Also, once Europe is scored most people forget about it - PERFECT time to quietly start placing influence into the cheap Mediteranian countries, which usually stops US from getting domination later.

Also, not sure why US wasted CIA as the headline only to place 1IP in Italy.  Big waste, IMHO.  That IP needs to go into Afghanistan!
Logged

SnowFire

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 05:54:48 pm »
0

The US got to see the USSR hand, though!  Which includes that "Europe Scoring" card.  Sticking the influence in Italy is at least a defensible play, quite possibly the right play depending on the rest of the US hand.  Repairing Italy quite possibly saves Europe for the US...  if the US has nothing in particular it wants to discard to Blockade, it's *definitely* the right play, as now the US fears a Europe control loss.
Logged

Julio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
  • You are not a cylon!
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
    • Partidas al Twilight Struggle
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 02:37:25 am »
0

The US got to see the USSR hand, though!  Which includes that "Europe Scoring" card.  Sticking the influence in Italy is at least a defensible play, quite possibly the right play depending on the rest of the US hand.  Repairing Italy quite possibly saves Europe for the US...  if the US has nothing in particular it wants to discard to Blockade, it's *definitely* the right play, as now the US fears a Europe control loss.

Thanks for the comments.

I think the most important thing is bearing in mind two points:
1 - USA knows USSR hand (mainly important for Euro Scoring and Blockade)
2 - USSR has very low ops and USA probably has a very high one. So you are not gonna win Europe Domination.

Couping 2 influenced Italy even with China card is risky. USA is gonna take France despite De Gaulle and USSR has no ops for the fight of getting more countries.
Headlining Euro scoring I think is also risky while knowing nothing about EEU.

Right know I think the best idea is to play a little in Europe because USA wants to Dominate it, but if you headline it you are moving the fight to another region and due to your low hand you are gonna lose it also.
Coup Iran with China card.
Play Independent Reds (getting Greece for example) and Romanian Abdication for getting Romania.
Play Blockade for ops (USA knows about this card so is very naive to play it for the event).
Hold De Gaulle for next headline to flip France (space Special Relationship if don't needed to lower DEFCON).
DEFCON should be 2 because next turn you want to flip France in AR1.
Play Desestalinization to get into Thailand, South America and Africa.
Logged
Partidas al Twilight Struggle. Spanish blog with AAR of some games and other TS considerations.

Azuredarkness

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 04:43:09 am »
0

Just a comment to the people talking about headlining cards - you can't actually headline anything in the situation described above, at least until the beginning of the next turn. The headline phase has already passed.

You can choose which card to play in the USSR's first action round.
Logged

Julio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
  • You are not a cylon!
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
    • Partidas al Twilight Struggle
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 06:23:50 am »
0

Just a comment to the people talking about headlining cards - you can't actually headline anything in the situation described above, at least until the beginning of the next turn. The headline phase has already passed.

You can choose which card to play in the USSR's first action round.

It is actually an open discussion.
You may suggest other headlines but if you do it, please do not take for granted that USA is gonna headline CIA.


I think in this situation headlining Socialist Governments is a mistake.  Socialist Governments can indeed be a very strong headline, especially on Turn1 when it sets up an easy Italy coup, but it needs a hand of very strong cards to back it up. The USSR would need a 4-op card (Nuclear Test Ban, US-Japan Pact or even Red Scare/Purge) to coup Italy, then move in to France, then threaten activating Blockade or just forcing their way to take W. Germany. Substituting the China Card only gets you so far.

Headlining Europe Scoring or Romanian Abdication is much better. (To set up De-Stal influence.)

Very good point. With low ops hand, Socialist Governments only stops USA a little in its way to Europe Domination.

On other side, headlining Romanian A. for removing it later with De-Stal BEFORE playing Independent Reds and AFTER lowering DEFCON to 2 gets you with very little room for reacting to anything.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:26:53 am by Julio »
Logged
Partidas al Twilight Struggle. Spanish blog with AAR of some games and other TS considerations.

Jack Rudd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 07:24:22 am »
+2

Another option is to use Socialist Governments to remove influence from Britain; it's an unusual move, but then Special Relationship becomes a null card if you can play it before the influence is replaced.
Logged

Riku Riekkinen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 07:22:05 pm »
0

Another option is to use Socialist Governments to remove influence from Britain; it's an unusual move, but then Special Relationship becomes a null card if you can play it before the influence is replaced.

I would say its quite common move currently.

-----

I would have probably put 5 to Poland 1 to EG at the start. Main objective being to use destal with max effiency at the first round. So the base plan is to play the OPs & Romanians until the DEFCON is lower, then use destal with IPs from Romania & Finland.
Logged

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2013, 05:45:28 pm »
0

I agree with the use of Romanian Abdication to fuel Destalinization. As USSR, if you draw it early, you usually have to take influence away from where you need it and feed it into Chile/Thailand etc. which can be quite painful.

I wouldn't use Socialist Govt's to remove influence from Britain. I would say that SG is one of the USSR's best HL/AR1 combo-ers. OK you can't score Europe domination with it this time round, but you can usually flip Italy in one fell swoop if you hold it till next HL.
Logged

BamBix

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
  • Wargameroom username: BamBix_TS
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 04:04:57 am »
0

If you reinforce EG and Poland, you can play europe scoring in the headline without issue. To my experience it's difficult to make USSR Domination there, unless you have the ops to spare and are really committed. Try to hold degaulle for the next hand, and take over France in turn 2. Pity you don't have Indo-Pakistani war, because it's dangerous (but rewarding) to destal into India if the Iran coup fails.

It is a matter of style and how you want to play. If you want to play aggressive, you headline soc. gov. and coup Italy in AR1. If US plays into France, you can take it next turn with Degaulle. Take greece and you have a nice EU domination. It is going to cost you in asia, however. If they headline Marshall plan, forget domination, but you can still hurt them in Europe with soc.gov.
Logged

Julio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
  • You are not a cylon!
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
    • Partidas al Twilight Struggle
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 04:19:52 am »
0

If you reinforce EG and Poland, you can play europe scoring in the headline without issue.


Your initial set up may be EG 4, Poland 5 or EG 5, Poland 4.
If you headline euroscoring and USA plays EEU he is gonna score Domination anyway.


Logged
Partidas al Twilight Struggle. Spanish blog with AAR of some games and other TS considerations.

BamBix

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
  • Wargameroom username: BamBix_TS
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 06:56:52 am »
0

EEU will remove 1 from 3 countries. So USSR will still have Pol+EG, so no domination. You might be confusing it with Socialist Governments.
Logged

Julio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
  • You are not a cylon!
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
    • Partidas al Twilight Struggle
Re: What would you do with this hand/situation as URSS?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 07:31:33 am »
0

If you reinforce EG and Poland, you can play Europe scoring in the headline without issue.


Your initial set up may be EG 4, Poland 5 or EG 5, Poland 4.
If you headline euroscoring and USA plays EEU he is gonna score Domination anyway.

Thats right.
Sorry I was wrong. So headlining euroscoring is safe. Thanks ;)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 09:16:19 am by Julio »
Logged
Partidas al Twilight Struggle. Spanish blog with AAR of some games and other TS considerations.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.113 seconds with 21 queries.