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discomute

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Europe Strategy for USSR
« on: March 13, 2013, 09:48:23 pm »
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Hi, whats your general strategy for Europe of USSR?

I am a very new player (second game last night) and my opponent smashing me in europe was the deciding factor. (Late war USA cards LOL - still all new to me)

I have read a bit of this site and was just curious. My general plan was to overcontrol East Germany and Poland, and virtually ignore it from here. It gives him +5VP's when it gets scored, but allows me to concentrate on other areas where the USSR is stronger.

Is this a bad strategy? In retrospect overcontrolling by "1" isn't a great plan when eastern european unrest, chernoybl and the reformer gets played over two turns.

Anyway I was just wondering how USSR players treat Europe: worth fighting for, or cutting your loses? Or something else?
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Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 12:29:10 am »
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If the US is routinely getting +5 per scoring card, that adds up. As a Soviet player, I'd probably recognize that Domination is an uphill battle (because E. Germany and Poland are likely all I'm going to get, unless I can somehow weasel into Italy or France, maybe via De Gaulle or Suez Crisis). However, just because I can't get domination, I should not allow the US player to get it too. By controlling non-battleground states, I can deny the US player a +5 per scoring card and reduce it instead to a +1 (for "tied" Presence points, and US getting +1 for one more battleground state than me).

That's one reason why Bulgaria is a nice place to put 1 starting influence - it allows you to get fairly quick control of two nations with stability of 2 (Turkey and Greece). The more you focus on low-stability countries, the harder it is for the US to get domination, even if they control the three usual battleground states. It's much easier to come back from a +2 aggregate over two scoring cards, than it is to recover from a +10 aggregate.

Just my two cents. Roubles. What have you. :)
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MarlesChartel

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 03:01:21 am »
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Given that OP is talking about the reformer as something that hurt him, perhaps there's a major rules misunderstanding happening here.
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discomute

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 03:34:28 am »
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LOL

Nah I just haven't memorised the cards yet i get them confused

I mean the pope! :)
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Kazzy

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 04:57:05 am »
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You can block an opponents Domination by having more or equal overall countries than your opponent.

In Europe the priority countries for this are Spain, Greece and Turkey. In addition to this USSR has an event for Romania.

 
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Cal

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 05:25:22 am »
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I have read a bit of this site and was just curious. My general plan was to overcontrol East Germany and Poland, and virtually ignore it from here. It gives him +5VP's when it gets scored, but allows me to concentrate on other areas where the USSR is stronger.

Is this a bad strategy? In retrospect overcontrolling by "1" isn't a great plan when eastern european unrest, chernoybl and the reformer gets played over two turns.

Anyway I was just wondering how USSR players treat Europe: worth fighting for, or cutting your loses? Or something else?

I wouldn't exactly say it's a 'bad' strategy, as many USSR players do sometimes find they have no ops to spare for Europe and so settle for E. Germany and Poland, but certainly if you have the opportunity you would like to attain domination/control in all of the regions.

The problem with the USSR's plans for Europe are:
1. US will probably have control of UK and Canada as non-battlegrounds. That's two countries against you from the start. (UK should never be fought for because of the existence of The Iron Lady late-war card, and attempting control of Canada is another unorthodox move, usually only practiced by those willing to waste their influence from De-Stalinization.)
2. US has better events at the start. Marshall Plan is a great Turn1 Headline, and if NATO is activated, Special Relationship's upgraded event is a killer. In comparison, Warsaw Pact is much more useful for its future potential and should never be activated in the Early War if the USSR can help it.

So the USSR's plans rely on luck of the draw. Specifically, Socialist Governments, DeGaulle, and possibly Blockade to allow the USSR into the W. Europe battlegrounds. Spain/Portugal, Greece, and Turkey are also highly important, and if you can control those, you will probably at least block US domination.

The USSR should worry if it finds itself with only E. Germany and Poland going into the Late War. The best defense in this situation is:
1. Never activate John Paul II. Do everything in your power to discard this card.
2. Try to have control of Czechoslovakia and Austria. These will protect against Tear Down This Wall. (Another card you must never play.)

But if the US gets domination of Europe, you better have domination of Asia to counter it or you will find yourself with a VP deficit.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 05:26:44 am by Cal »
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Chimista

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 06:22:23 am »
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As the USSR it's true I tend not to over-invest in Europe, since Asia and ME are more atractive and easy to obtain domination for you. Normally my approach is to prevent US Domination (or control) by taking over France. To do it I use a high ops card (3 or 4) to set up a double threat for the US, for example, I put 1ip in Germany or Italy and 1ip in Israel (to get into Egypt) or South Korea (To control the country with a 3ops card later). Then the US player has to choose: control France with 3ip or control Egypt or South Korea. In case De Gaulle and Suez Crisis are still in the deck many players will have second thoughts wheter to make an investment in France. If they choose to control France you'll get a consolation prize in Asia or ME.

Obviously this works much better if the US player is Red-Scared in that turn. This strategy is not always posible, of course. You'll need at least two high ops cards (3 or 4ops) and you can't forget other Early War goals, as trying not to use China Card  in the first turn to prevent US holding Decol+Destal to turn 3.

Another classic strategy is to use Socialist Goverments, De Gaulle or Suez Crisis as headline and then play in AR1 in France. I normally tend not to use De Gaulle or Suez for the event, to keep them in the deck as a deterrent for the US to invest and also to headline one of them to take over France. This works only, of course, if US hasn't overcontrolled France, since otherwise you'll get in an ops war that is really dangerous for you if Truman is still around. With this strategy you are giving the US player the opportunity to coup a BG in the ME, so you need to weigh the consecuences.

Other classical approaches would be:
- Taking over Italy with a Socialist Govs + AR1 Coup (T1 only)/ play 3ip into Italy.
- Taking over Germany with Red Scare + Blocade combo (and some luck)

So my strategy would be: Not over-investing in Europe, but take any chance available to take over Italy, Germany or France in order to have 3Bg's. As soon I see myself with 3 BG's then I try to solidify my position by:
- Overcontrolling: in France the US can sneak in to break control with an AR6 play, or playing events such as Special Relationship, Norad and then HL Truman to totally remove you.
- Get some border allieds: Specially important if you control Italy, since the US can Brush War you out, but also for France, a tipical target for Tear Down Realignments in the Late War. Control Algeria, Spain asap. For Italy Yougoslavia and Austria can help.

Also depending on the circunstances in the rest of the world I'll take over the other mediterranean countries. For these countries Marshall plan is paramount. If US headlines it there's not much you can do. No point to start an ops war here, in my opinion. You could use Socialist Govs to take US out of the three mediterranean countries and take away access to Turkey, but I normally just give them up.

It's important never to invest too early in countries subjet to Independent Reds. I never put influence in them (even 1) until IR is out of the game. It's a pain to have the US in there, so my initial set up in Europe is always +1 East Germany + 4 Poland or +3 Poland +1 Austria.

If everything goes wrong for you in Europe you must at least stick to East Germany and Poland. put at least 6 ip in those countries since less is a suicide. A good Late War US hand (Chernobyl + Easter European Unrest + Tear Down, for example) can mean US European Control and the end of the game for you.

I never play Comecom or Warsaw Pact for the event because they can save your life in the late war. If the US plays them I put influence in East Germany and Poland (Nothing under 7 is too much) and maybe Czechoslovakia and Austria (hepls against Tear Down)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 07:17:26 am by Chimista »
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theory

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 10:24:10 am »
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For me, it depends on De Gaulle / Socialist Governments / Marshall Plan.  If he MP's, I solidify EGER/POL and forget about Europe.  If I can get in a strong Soc Govs or a De Gaulle, I'll take at least the third battleground, even if I don't go for domination.

That's one reason why Bulgaria is a nice place to put 1 starting influence - it allows you to get fairly quick control of two nations with stability of 2 (Turkey and Greece).

You can do the same with Yugoslavia, which also provides you access to Italy (Syria already gives you access to Turkey).
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discomute

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 09:49:44 pm »
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Some great advice and discussion here.

Yes the more used to cards I get the more I suppose they will allow me to dictate what I do. (Last game he spaced DeGaule three times lol)

I think it would be quite difficult to outnumber the non-battlegrounds with canada and uk sitting there.

It's a shame that West Germany is so untouchable, otherwise drawing degaulle might make you tempted to coup italy...
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Zim

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Re: Europe Strategy for USSR
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 12:25:00 am »
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If you can spare the OPs, and taking France/Italy is not an option, a possible defensive move is to use the Marshall Plan Ops to take over Turkey and Greece before activating the Plan. With some luck of the draw you stand a good chance of denying at least one domination by controlling more countries...
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