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Author Topic: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)  (Read 10392 times)

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pietshaq

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Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« on: July 01, 2013, 04:34:25 pm »
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Hi!

What's the fastest possible victory in theory, separately for USSR and US? I mean: what's the theoretical scenario leading for the victory? The speed is measured in Turns and Action Half-Rounds. Assume players may make any mistakes except from losing to DEFCON unless forced and holding Scoring Cards (except Kennedy which is irrelevant since I've seen USSR winning in Early War so it's impossible that USSR's fastest win meets Kennedy).
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theory

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 05:46:58 pm »
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The USSR can win on US T1 AR1:

USSR setup: 3 into Poland + somewhere else
US setup: put it all into Canada

US headline: De-Stalinization
* USSR moves 4 influence: 2 into France, 2 into Italy

USSR headline: Olympic Games
* US boycotts, USSR places 4 Ops into WGer

USSR T1: place 1 influence into France
US T1: Score Europe Control for USSR
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blitzgordon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 07:43:15 pm »
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US win on T1 USSR AR1:
US Headline: Olympic Games, USSR boycotts. DEFCON 4. USSR Headline: CIA created, US Coups BG. DEFCON 3
USSR plays Duck & Cover for ops, DEFCON 2, coups Panama/South Africa: Ka-Boom.
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theory

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 08:56:08 pm »
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I think the OP wanted non-DEFCON wins, though it is amusing that the US could win before it takes an AR.
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blitzgordon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 02:51:12 am »
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I think the OP wanted non-DEFCON wins, though it is amusing that the US could win before it takes an AR.
Oh, I was reading late last night and I missed that. But ok.

So, earliest win for US then?
No inf in EG for USSR, Poland Truman-d out, Polish and French takeover. USSR HLs East European Unrest, US Olympic games - places four inf (three france, one EG). USSR plays Truman. has to place 7 5 more inf (two EG, three POL) and scoring must be played.
Where are we then? USSR AR3?
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 03:35:20 am »
+1

USSR adds 1 to every non-battle ground Eastern European Country on start-up.
USA adds 4 to WG, 2 to Italy, 1 to France
USSR headlines East European Unrest - 1 from poland, 2 from elsewhere
USA headlines Olympic Games - adds 3 to EG, 1 to France

Turn 1:
USSR plays Truman Doctrine, Adds to N Korea, - USA takes from Poland
USA plays Nuclear Test Ban - adds 3 to Poland and 1 to France

Turn 2:
USSR plays Europe Scoring - USA wins with control?

The next question is what's the quickest way to win with points and no Euro auto-victory?


« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 03:37:53 am by Kazzy »
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blitzgordon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 04:43:38 am »
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Funny that my opening setup as US is so fixed that I never even reflected over the fact that you could start with WG 4 IT 2 FR 1...
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 06:30:19 am »
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I think USSR could win by the end of Turn 1 by getting to 20 points.

Needs 3 extra IP in Middle East to get domination (or Nasser), needs to win Korean War for points and influence, (played by USA) and use the china card to add to Afghanistan and South Korea.

Then USSR also needs to make a strong coup, win the Arab Israeli War (for more points) and get domination in Europe - think it's doable in 1 turn.
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Eruantalon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 07:28:28 am »
+2

Setup:
USSR In European non-bg not enough to control any of them
USA 4 WG 2 ITA 1 FR
USA Headlines Olympics, USSR Europe Scoring
USA puts 1 in EG, 2 In FRA - + 10 VP

USSR AR 1 USSR Plays ME Scoring + 4 VP
USA AR 1 4OPS to put in North Korea and Pakistan/South Korea
USSR AR2 Asia Scoring + 8 VP =22VP, USA Wins
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gringohairpiece

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 08:55:46 am »
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So we are talking situations where the USSR deliberately sets up to lose???? While the OP said to assume mistakes could be made I would suggest that what has been put forward so far is less a mistake and more a suicide letter :D
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 09:17:57 am »
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It's like fools mate in chess isn't it?

White has to basically play to lose in 2 moves.

We could assume any mistakes including them not setting up the board wisely
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 09:19:37 am »
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Setup:
USSR In European non-bg not enough to control any of them
USA 4 WG 2 ITA 1 FR
USA Headlines Olympics, USSR Europe Scoring
USA puts 1 in EG, 2 In FRA - + 10 VP

USSR AR 1 USSR Plays ME Scoring + 4 VP
USA AR 1 4OPS to put in North Korea and Pakistan/South Korea
USSR AR2 Asia Scoring + 8 VP =22VP, USA Wins

Are we assuming +1 influence for Iran then? If not then it'll need another go.

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theory

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 09:39:03 am »
+1

So we are talking situations where the USSR deliberately sets up to lose???? While the OP said to assume mistakes could be made I would suggest that what has been put forward so far is less a mistake and more a suicide letter :D

The whole point of the puzzle is the fastest theoretical victory, not the fastest victory with optimal play from both sides.
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 11:00:50 am »
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USSR quickest victory:

USA puts all influence into UK
USSR: 3 into EG, 2 into Yugoslavia, 1 in Hungary and

USSR headlines Vietnam Revolts
USA headlines Asia Scoring - +8 USSR

USSR plays Warsaw pact takes yugoslavia and hungary
USA plays Europe Scoring + 9 (17 poinst overall)

USSR places influence to take Iraq and Syria
USA plays ME scoring +6 (23 points I believe)
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sspiker

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 11:11:23 am »
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In that scenario, the USSR would score +5 for Asia domination and +6 for Europe domination, so that only gets you to 17 VPs.

Also, I assume you meant Poland and not EG, as the USSR starts with 3 in EG.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 11:13:17 am by sspiker »
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sspiker

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 12:34:58 pm »
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My solution:

Set-up:
US: 2 into Norway, 4 into Finland, 1 into Sweden, +1/+2 into Sweden
USA: 3 Poland, 3 Yugoslavia

Headline:
USSR: Olympics (Boycotted, place 4 influence - +2 Iraq, +1 Syria, +1 Italy)
USA: Mid East Scoring (+6 VP)

AR 1:
USSR: Destal (remove four from Iraq and Syria, +1 Vietnam, +1 Italy, +2 France)
USA: Asia Scoring (+5 VP)

AR 2:
USSR: 3 Ops (+1 France, +1 UK)
USA: Europe Scoring (+11 VP)

USSR wins with 22 VPs
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 01:14:08 pm by sspiker »
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sspiker

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 01:11:32 pm »
+2

Some games have a +3 IP bid for the US, which can be won by the US at the end of AR1:

Setup:
US: 4 WGer, 2 ITAL, 1 FR, +2 SKor, +1 FR
USSR: 2 Yugoslavia, 2 Finland, 2 Austria

HL:
USSR: Destal (-3 NKor, -1 EGer, place in Mid-War region)
USA: Olympics (Boycott, +3 NKor, +1 FR)

AR1:
USSR: Asia Scoring (+10 VP)
USA: Europe Scoring (+10 VP)
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Kazzy

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2013, 03:56:22 am »
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Once you get to +3 bids this exercise becomes silly.

Got to stick to standard set up I believe
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Eruantalon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2013, 05:18:59 am »
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Well, setup with at least +1 IP is standard already, thus the "textbook" setup for this looks more like disconnected from  reality. BAring that, tries of every setup are nice mind exercise ; )
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pietshaq

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 03:19:37 pm »
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Well, setup with at least +1 IP is standard already, thus the "textbook" setup for this looks more like disconnected from  reality. BAring that, tries of every setup are nice mind exercise ; )

I'd rather call the textbook setup "imbalanced". What do you exactly mean by "reality"?  ;D
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Eruantalon

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2013, 02:15:18 am »
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I've actually meant "practice" - the way the game's played.
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Riku Riekkinen

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2013, 12:41:55 am »
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Setup:
USSR In European non-bg not enough to control any of them
USA 4 WG 2 ITA 1 FR
USA Headlines Olympics, USSR Europe Scoring
USA puts 1 in EG, 1 In Iran, 1 in Lebanon - + 9 VP

USSR AR 1 USSR Plays ME Scoring + 6 VP
USA AR 1 4OPS to put in North Korea and Pakistan/South Korea
USSR AR2 Asia Scoring + 8 VP =23VP, USA Wins

-----

My solution:

Set-up:
US: 3 into Norway, 3 into Finland, 1 into Sweden, +1/+2 into Sweden
USSR: 3 Poland, 3 Yugoslavia

Headline:
USSR: Destal (remove 1 Finland, 3 North Korea ; Put +2 Iraq, +1 Lebanon, +1 Malaysia)
USA: ME scoring (-6 VP)

AR 1:
USSR: China (+1 Australia, +2 Thailand, +1Malysia)
USA: Asia Scoring (-8 VP)

AR 2:
USSR: Europe Scoring (-6 VP)
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lambolt

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2014, 06:54:58 am »
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I would be interested to see what the fastest possible victory was not including mistakes, i.e. only accounting for bad luck in die rolls and/or hand draws.
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pietshaq

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2014, 09:44:33 am »
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I would be interested to see what the fastest possible victory was not including mistakes, i.e. only accounting for bad luck in die rolls and/or hand draws.

Too dubious how to tell mistake apart from non-mistake when you already know the results of rolling or cards for the next turn.
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lambolt

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Re: Fastest possible victory (theoretically)
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2014, 12:01:35 pm »
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Just assume the worst die rolls and combination of card draws for a particular side, but then work out a way to play the cards and influence so that one side cannot stop the defeat. I'm guessing it would be difficult because it would go several turns?
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