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Author Topic: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card  (Read 3912 times)

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pietshaq

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Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« on: July 22, 2013, 10:03:14 am »
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Hi!

If both Brezhnev Doctrine and Vietnam Revolts are active, which comes first?

Case: USSR plays a 3Ops card and intends to use all ops in SE Asia. Is it:
3Ops boosted by Vietnam Revolts to 4Ops "boosted" by Brezhnev Doctrine to 4Ops due to max or
3Ops boosted by Brezhnev Doctrine to 4Ops boosted by Vietnam Revolts to 5Ops due to no limits?
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theory

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 02:59:30 pm »
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No limits.  I am pretty sure it is then a 5 Ops, much like how China Card + Vietnam = 6 Ops in SEA.
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budzo

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2013, 06:09:37 pm »
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I had similar issue but to the other side. I played blockade during rsp and vietnam. We didnt know (me and my opponent) if its for 1 or 2 ops.
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pietshaq

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2013, 03:04:45 am »
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No limits.  I am pretty sure it is then a 5 Ops, much like how China Card + Vietnam = 6 Ops in SEA.

China Card + Vietnam is different because China Card is boosted with only one card which says nothing about the limitations.
My case are two boosts, one of which is limited and one of which is not. And although my intuition tilts towards your answer, that this is 5Ops in SEA, I cannot find a rule that confirms it. If I was to defend this, I'd say the following:

Both Brezhnev Doctrine and Vietnam Revolts are USSR events. The rules say that USSR events are implemented by USSR player as if he played them himself, no matter who really played it. Since he implements his own event, he may also implement his own two events order in case they are both active at the same time and have influence on each other or boost each other's effects.

This would convince me but I wanted to make sure.

Incidentally, I'd like to know how wargameroom TS engine covers the situation. If I have time this afternoon I'll check it during a self-self game but should anybody check it before, please share.
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budzo

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 05:00:56 pm »
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What about this rsp + vietnam thing? does anyone has the solution?
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pietshaq

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2013, 03:14:11 pm »
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That's easy: they nullify each other if each works. That is: a card played fully to SE Asia uses its nominal value (5Ops if China Card), a card played elsewhere uses reduced value (4Ops for China Card fully in Asia but not fully in SE Asia)
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budzo

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2013, 05:03:57 pm »
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Y but what about 1 op cards?
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pietshaq

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 08:16:29 am »
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They remain 1Op cards, no matter if used in SE Asia (nullified effects) or elsewhere (no RS/P penalty)
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budzo

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 02:23:36 pm »
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For example vassal say its different:

u play card for 1 op and then it says: +1 in se asia.

But in that case 1 op cards should be also boosted by contaiment wchich does not happen.
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MarlesChartel

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 08:29:03 pm »
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Vietnam Revolts applies after everything else, including checking for a max of 4 or a min of 1. A 1 op card played under RSP and Vietnam Revolts in SEA will be 2 ops. A 3 ops card played with Brezhnev and Vietnam Revolts in SEA will be 5 ops.
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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 02:27:25 am »
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Why do you think Vietnam Revolts applies after everything else? The instruction says explicitly that "modifiers should be applied in aggregate".
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budzo

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Re: Brezhnev plays the Vietnam Card
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 01:42:25 pm »
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In translation (my own translation to be precise) form the polish edition, Vietnam Revolt card says:

Add 2 USSR inf in Vietnam. Until the end of the turn USSR player may add 1 OP to every card of wchich every OP is used in SE Asia.

So if we read it that way: u play blockade for 1op wchich is unaffected by red scare/purge because its 1op then i decide to put 1 inf in SE asia and then i can add 1 OP to the value of this card. The key here is that the modification comes into place after the decision of placing influence wchich is different from rsp/contaiment/brezhnev.

I was under this situation twice in a very short period of time so it is not that rare. (RSP being obvious headline for US, Vietnam very good headline for USSR).

Another thing involved: Can i decide to break control of a country with 1op card under vietnam revolts? Thing is i have to place all the influence before gaining bonus so if i decide to place it in us controlled country i theoretically cant do that...
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