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discomute

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2 simple questions
« on: August 30, 2013, 12:15:32 am »
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at least i hope

Question 1) Flower Power & Camp David Accords are in play. If the USA player plays Arab-Israeli war, does the USSR get 2 VP?

Question 2) How do you deal cards out exactly? If the USA has 2 cards left, and the USSR has 0, what order do you do this in? (This could effect who gets the reshuffled cards)
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Cal

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2013, 06:43:04 am »
+1

1. The USSR does not. Camp David Accords cancels the event, which means Arab-Israeli War is no longer a "war card," it's just a card with a null event that can be played for 2ops.

2. I think the official answer is the USSR always gets the first dealt card, then the US, and keep alternating. If one side gets the full number of cards they'd hold that hand, then the other side just draws the rest of the cards they need.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 10:17:33 am »
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2 more questions

1) If the formosan res. is in effect, and the US plays the china card, does formosan go into the discard pile or is it removed from the game?

2a) If quagmire is currently in effect, and the USSR player uses NORAD, is it instantly cancelled?
2b) if NORAD is in effect, does it stay in play for the rest of the game? Or is it cancelled after 1 influence is placed?
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blitzgordon

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 06:05:05 am »
+1

2 more questions

1) If the formosan res. is in effect, and the US plays the china card, does formosan go into the discard pile or is it removed from the game?

2a) If quagmire is currently in effect, and the USSR player uses NORAD, is it instantly cancelled?
2b) if NORAD is in effect, does it stay in play for the rest of the game? Or is it cancelled after 1 influence is placed?

1: The wording on the card could have been clearer. The moment the event is activated, ie. when USSR plays it or US plays it for the event, the card is removed from play and put aside. What happens when US plays the China Card is, the effect of the card is removed. That is, Taiwan is no more a BG country. The card itself is removed immediately.

2 a + b: NORAD is only cancelled by play of Quagmire and there is no maximum of influence it could be worth under the course of a game. (but needs, of course, control of Canada to be active). If NORAD is played after Qaugmire, then it stays active throughout the game.
Two things to note about NORAD:
a) it only applies if DEFCON drops in an action round, not in the headline phase.
b) if DEFCON goes up and down several times in a turn, NORAD kicks in every time. So ABM Treaty, SALT NEG, etc., could see US placing influence through NORAD more than once.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 09:50:40 am »
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Thanks!!
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 06:16:28 pm »
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1) you do not need a non-battleground country for control. Correct?
2) junta if you aren't couping, you get a free single realignment roll (not 2 because its a two ops card, correct ?)
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 02:54:34 am »
+1

1) you do not need a non-battleground country for control. Correct?

Correct.

2) junta if you aren't couping, you get a free single realignment roll (not 2 because its a two ops card, correct ?)

Incorrect. You get two realignment rolls because each realignment costs 1 Op. It can be 1 if you are Red Scared/Purged, it can be 3 if you have Junta boosted with Containment/Brezhnev Doctrine, and it's possible to get rid of targets before using all rolls (and, therefore, lose them) but you basically have two rolls.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 08:50:23 am »
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1) if USA plays middle envy, and the USSR shows quagmire, what happens on the USSR's next turn? Does he
a) use 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
b) uses 2 ops, doesn't roll to cancel quagmire
c) discards the 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
d) missle envy is 'postponed', that is quagmire applies as normal, the next turn he gets when USSR isn't quagmired, he uses missile envy's 2 ops

My guess is d...
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Julio

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 09:00:52 am »
+1

1) if USA plays middle envy, and the USSR shows quagmire, what happens on the USSR's next turn? Does he
a) use 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
b) uses 2 ops, doesn't roll to cancel quagmire
c) discards the 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
d) missle envy is 'postponed', that is quagmire applies as normal, the next turn he gets when USSR isn't quagmired, he uses missile envy's 2 ops

My guess is d...


I think in that case Quagmire is not triggered. But for Bear Trap, I do not know, I guess C.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:02:54 am by Julio »
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 09:52:28 am »
+1

1) if USA plays middle envy, and the USSR shows quagmire, what happens on the USSR's next turn? Does he
a) use 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
b) uses 2 ops, doesn't roll to cancel quagmire
c) discards the 2 ops, rolls to cancel quagmire
d) missle envy is 'postponed', that is quagmire applies as normal, the next turn he gets when USSR isn't quagmired, he uses missile envy's 2 ops

My guess is d...

The question may be understood in two different ways:

1. US headlines Missile Envy against USSR headline of Quagmire. Quagmire is in play but from the next action round. US ends Missile Envy event. USSR must use Missile Envy.
2. US plays Missile Envy and gets Quagmire in return. The Quagmire event does not happen, US uses 3Ops from Quagmire and the Quagmire card is put on the discard pile.

Similar scenarios:
3. US plays Missile Envy and gets Bear Trap in return. Bear Trap occurs immediately which means USSR must use Missile Envy for the first attempt to go out of the trap.
4. Like above but USSR is purged. Missile Envy must be played on the first action round it may be played, it is: if Bear Trap ends before the turn ends, it must be played as a first card after the trap ends, otherwise it must be played as a first attempt on the next turn (provided USSR is not purged again).
5. Like above but Missile Envy is discarded before USSR gets a chance to get rid of it (for example, the first attempt under purge was successful but done with other card, then US plays Grain Sales to Soviets, draws Missile Envy and decides to play it for ops). Missile Envy does not affect USSR anymore.
6. Like above but USSR loses and gets back Missile Envy before he has a chance to play it for Ops. (For example, US returns Missile Envy drawn by Grain Sales without playing it). In my opinion losing this card without playing it removes the obligation to play it for Ops permanently, even if the card was lost temporarily. USSR may as well play it back for the event.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 11:09:14 pm »
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Yes, I have confused everyone by saying "quagmire" when I meant "bear trap"

Scenario 3 is the one that i am talking about.

Are you sure that USSR must use missile envy for the first attempt to get out of the trap? To me, it says that missile envy must use '2 ops on their next turn' and bear trap says they must discard a card, I would argue that it is not the same thing. I would feel like Bear Trap would proceed as normal, and the next available time the USSR player can have a normal go (when Bear Trap is over) they must use the 2 ops from missile envy.
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 02:40:22 am »
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Yes, I have confused everyone by saying "quagmire" when I meant "bear trap"

Scenario 3 is the one that i am talking about.

Are you sure that USSR must use missile envy for the first attempt to get out of the trap? To me, it says that missile envy must use '2 ops on their next turn' and bear trap says they must discard a card, I would argue that it is not the same thing. I would feel like Bear Trap would proceed as normal, and the next available time the USSR player can have a normal go (when Bear Trap is over) they must use the 2 ops from missile envy.

And Bear Trap states that a card must be discarded... when exactly? ;)
Missile Envy and Bear Trap both say about things you (as USSR) must do on your next Action Round. So, when there goes to your next Action Round, you are under two obligations. Since they can be met both at the same time, this is what you have to do.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 06:51:56 am »
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But they can't be both met, as Bear Trap says you need to discard an operation card worth 2 or more. 'Not using operation points from a card already in play' has an effect that is similar, but it is not what Bear Trap says to do.
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 07:43:10 am »
+1

Discarding a card which is restricted to the card Ops value should be considered as one of the ways of playing the card for Ops. Note that if not Bear-Trapped, USSR player might as well send Missile Envy to space in your case.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 11:04:55 pm »
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1) when you have to discard a card (e.g. from ask not what your country...) does your opponent get to look at what you discard?

2) realignments... just making sure that you don't need to have influence in there, or be adjacent to the country... i've just discovered them and realigning random countries that you have no influence in (so you cant lose) at either a -1 or a -2 is so effective... i can't shake the feeling i am doing something wrong
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Julio

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2013, 02:32:44 am »
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1) Yes. Discarded cards are available at any moment to be examined.

2) For realignments the only condition is that the country must have opponent's influence. If it is effective to realign with -2, is up to you to decide...
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2013, 03:22:40 am »
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Thanks

Ps. I wouldn't specifically go chasing the -2's, but I get surprised how often they work. E.g. Realign with a two ops card at +1 and it works the first time, look at South Africa at -2 and think 'why not'
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2013, 03:39:10 am »
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If you have remaining realignments and no better options then, hey, why not? And yes, it's legal. Realignment legality has two conditions: opponent's IP (at least one) in target country and DEFCON geographical restrictions.
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Julio

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2013, 04:15:54 am »
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...and DEFCON geographical restrictions.

Ups, that's right, I forgot to mention it.
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blitzgordon

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2013, 04:30:43 pm »
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Realignment legality has two conditions: opponent's IP (at least one) in target country and DEFCON geographical restrictions.
Are we sure about the first condition? I remember the question being up a few times - If USSR is forced to play CIA created after Fidel has ousted Batista (and DEFCON is 2), cannot USSR play CIA for realignment rolls in Cuba and hope to be eliminated before US can coup? The rules are not explicit on this.
I'd say USSR is free to realign, but I'm open to other interpretations.
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pietshaq

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 05:37:54 pm »
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That's a nice point! I was sure it was necessary but can't find it anywhere in the rulebook!
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blitzgordon

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 05:47:05 pm »
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That's a nice point! I was sure it was necessary but can't find it anywhere in the rulebook!
This passage
"6.2.1 Realignment rolls are used to reduce enemy Influence in a country."
might suggest realign is impossible without enemy influence but really only tells the use and not the restrictions. Anyway, the player in me favours flexibility and innovation. If USSR saves itself by eliminating itself from Cuba, then I say go nuts and good on ya for staying alive.
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discomute

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 11:09:38 pm »
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yeah i dont think you can do that
opponent needs influence, right?
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Azuredarkness

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Re: 2 simple questions
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2013, 08:34:18 am »
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Yes
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