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Author Topic: NORAD questions  (Read 2417 times)

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pietshaq

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NORAD questions
« on: March 12, 2014, 10:50:50 am »
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Hi!

In which of the following scenarios US will get IP from NORAD, assuming all the scenarios have the following conditions met at the beginning of the AR in common: NORAD is active, Nuclear Subs are not active, DEFCON is at 3.

Case 1. DEFCON drops to 2 during the Action Round but remains higher at the end of the Action Round, Canada US-controlled during the whole AR (e.g.: US plays Glasnost', coups first, and triggers event second).
Case 2. Canada US-controlled at the beginning of AR but not at the end, DEFCON drops to 2 during the AR but remains higher at the end, there is a moment when Canada is US-controlled and DEFCON is at 2 simultaneously (e.g.: like the above + USSR uses Glasnost' to break US control of Canada).
Case 3. Canada non-US-controlled at the beginning of AR but US-controlled at the end of AR, DEFCON drops to 2 during the AR but remains higher at the end, there is NO moment when Canada is US-controlled and DEFCON is at 2 simultaneously (e.g.: USSR plays Star Wars and performs a battleground coup, then US uses the event to trigger ABM and uses ABM's Ops to control Canada).
Case 4. Canada US-controlled all the time, US performs a battleground coup with a Quagmire.

I guess cases 1 and 3 will give US IPs while 2 and 4 will not, assuming the card's pre-requisite should be interpreted the following way:
If at the end of the Action Round both NORAD is active and Canada is US-controlled, and during the Action Round there was a moment when DEFCON dropped to 2, US may...

Still, not sure.

All the best!
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Azuredarkness

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Re: NORAD questions
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 05:07:40 am »
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1. US will get influence at the end of the action round
2. No influence for the US.
3. Influence for the US.
4. No influence for the US.

The NORAD-active & control-Canada condition is checked at the end of the action round, provided there was an instance during that round when DEFCON was 2.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 06:22:52 am by Azuredarkness »
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lukiluk

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Re: NORAD questions
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 06:50:48 am »
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1 and 3 seem pretty obvious and I agree with your interpretation regarding 4, but scenario 2 seems not so straightforward.
Just because the effect of NORAD takes place at the end of an action round, doesn't mean that the condition should also be checked at that specific time. In my opinion, for every event with lasting effects the condition is continuously checked and not only just before the effect is about to take place.
For NORAD, the check would look like this:

- Does US control Canada?
--- No - condition is not met, exit check
--- Yes - has the DEFCON moved to 2 in this action round (so far!)
------ No - condition is not met, exit check
------ Yes - condition is met, activate NORAD effect for this action round, effective at the end of AR

Therefore, since in scenario 2 there was a moment when Canada was US-controlled and DEFCON was at 2 simultaneously, NORAD effect takes place. The only exception is when Quagmire event is played before the effect takes place but after the condition is checked to be met, since I assume that Quagmire cancels NORAD with all its pending effects.

In other words, if USSR plays Duck&Cover in AR1 at DEFCON 3 and uses it to break control of Canada, whether the NORAD effect happens depends on whether the card was played for ops first, or for event first.

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Azuredarkness

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Re: NORAD questions
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 08:57:44 am »
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The only relevant time to check for Canada control is when the effect triggers. You can move the "if the us controls Canada" to the end of the sentence to make that clearer.
Otherwise, an interpretation in which control of Canada is only checked when the card is played is equally valid.
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lukiluk

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Re: NORAD questions
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 09:59:19 am »
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The only relevant time to check for Canada control is when the effect triggers.
Why? Do you have any arguments to support such a statement?
Unlike most events, when the effect occurs immediately after a card is played or a condition is met, the NORAD effect happens at specified time - at the end of an action round in which condition was met.

You can move the "if the us controls Canada" to the end of the sentence to make that clearer.
I really can't. The text of this event is as specified by the authors of the game and one can't just change it to fit his assumption about the meaning better.

I am not 100% sure that my interpretation is correct, but at the very least it is a reasonable doubt.
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