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Author Topic: ABM Treaty Question  (Read 3390 times)

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pietshaq

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ABM Treaty Question
« on: June 11, 2014, 04:10:37 am »
+1

Hi!

The rules state that spacing a card is one of the ways to spend operation points of the card:

6.0
"Operations can be used in the following ways: to place Influence markers, to make Realignment rolls, to attempt Coups, or to attempt advancement in the Space Race. When a card is played as an Operations card, the player must choose to use all of the Operations points on one of the following options: Marker Placement, Realignment rolls, Coup Attempts or a Space Race attempt."

However, 6.4.5 specifies that
"Regardless of text on the card, an Event discarded to make a die roll to advance on the Space Race track is not implemented. The card is placed in the discard pile."

My question is: am I allowed to trigger ABM Treaty as an event, increase DEFCON, and then use the card's ops for Space Race Attempt?

With 6.0 I'd say 'yes', with 6.4.5 I'd say 'no'. The question may be surprisingly relevant because although situation in which playing ABM Treaty as described above would make sense is extremely rare, imagine playing CIA with active Containment, seeing USSR's hand and using CIA's operation points for a Space Race attempt just to keep the card in the deck (or maybe not as the starred event was already triggered?).

I'd like to know the official answer. I am personally for 'no', and I agree with Janusz Wójciak's suggestion that spacing a card should be treated as a third way of playing a card along with playing it as an event and playing it for ops rather than a fourth way of using operation points of the card. Note that this is a significantly different way of using operation points than the three other ways: this is the only one that may be disabled for a card that has some operation points defined just because the quantity of ops is too low and the only one that, if already played, in no case makes any difference depending on the card's value.
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MollyMae

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2014, 11:40:33 am »
+1

I would absolutely say yes.  As the card event allows you to use Ops and you can use Ops in the space race, you should be allowed to do this.

I would say that if the Space Race were a separate way to play cards (which I thought they were until a few months ago), it would not be allowed. 

As the rules are written though, I'd even go so far to say that even if ABM were a 1 Ops card that, when the event was triggered, let you play 4 Ops, you could use those 4 Ops to attempt to advance regardless of which space you're already on (assuming you're not under RS/P).  Obviously this is a theoretical situation, but it exemplifies my point.

Also, this is just my interpretation of the rules.  Someone probably has a better or clearer answer.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 11:42:30 am by MollyMae »
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ddddddd

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 05:29:52 pm »
0

Wow - I'd never even considered that interpretation! My understanding - like yours - is that Spacing is another way of playing a card, and usually a way of playing an opponents card without triggering the event, so I would have thought the answer was "no".

I'd love to have an expert weigh in on this - any chance of pointing Theory to this?
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MarlesChartel

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 10:18:07 am »
0

The rules are definitely inconsistent. You are not allowed to play an opponent's card for ops, spacing it and triggering the event. You are allowed to do this thing called 'spacing' which doesn't trigger the event. There's no reasonable way not to interpret this as 'spacing is separate from ops and events'

"Space racing" a card is a 3rd way of playing it, IMO. Playing a card for ops triggers the event, while space racing a card does not.

The only other interpretation is that when you play a card for ops, you don't get the option to space it; spacing is a third option separate from ops and event. However, when you get ops, without 'playing a card for ops', you DO get the option to space it as part of the ops.
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Cal

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 03:28:06 am »
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I'd file this as another one under "you could, but why would you want to?" Giving your opponent a free coup is a huge disadvantage, as is spending a neutral event on the space race.

I suppose maybe if you really needed VP (like from reaching the last space race square) and you knew your opponent had a scoring card to play and so couldn't take advantage of the free coup, then it might be a valid move.
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pietshaq

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 06:02:09 am »
0

I'd file this as another one under "you could, but why would you want to?" Giving your opponent a free coup is a huge disadvantage, as is spending a neutral event on the space race.

I suppose maybe if you really needed VP (like from reaching the last space race square) and you knew your opponent had a scoring card to play and so couldn't take advantage of the free coup, then it might be a valid move.

To combine Space Race possible VPs with one more VP from Mil Ops penalty plus see the CIA case mentioned.
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MichaelVal

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Re: ABM Treaty Question
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 10:18:52 am »
0

FWIW, the program on wargameroom will not allow you to play ABM for the event and then make a space race attempt.
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