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Author Topic: Space Race Boost (Proposal)  (Read 5007 times)

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pietshaq

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Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« on: September 16, 2014, 05:15:56 am »
+1

Hi!

Just came up with the following one, for reaching the seventh box because this looks like a powerful one:

The player decides whose Headline Events occurs first. If the opposing player must still select and reveal his Headline Event first, the player is allowed to elect that the opponent's Headline Event occurs before the player selects his own Headline Event.

Waiting for comments  :)
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Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 04:52:31 pm »
0

Clarification request: this power must be decided upon BEFORE flipping the headline cards over? (Otherwise the second part doesn't make much sense?) :confused:
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 03:23:56 am »
0

No. The power is decided after a player knows both headlines. But if the opponent must select and reveal headline first, the power is boosted and the player's headline may depend not only on the opponent's headline but also on opponent's headline's implementation.

If I have this power but you reached the 4th box, we both select and reveal headlines as usual. I can only say "my headline goes first" even if yours is worth more ops.

But if I have this power and you did not reach the 4th box, you show me, for example Junta as your headline, I may tell you: "Implement Junta before I select my headline". And this may e.g. stop you from couping a battleground with Junta to prevent headlining Wargames for a win by me.
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blitzgordon

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2014, 04:19:59 pm »
0

I like it a lot. It's way powerful, but will create a whole slew of interesting situations. I'd play it (I've hardly ever come to the last box though).
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 02:52:13 am »
0

Actually, it's the last but one box. I did not mean to create a box with double bonus or to remove 8th box bonus.
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Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 07:56:21 am »
0

I like the power. It keeps the headline game active even after the fight for the fourth box has been concluded.

Does the seventh space still have its VP reward under this variant?

I'm thinking the VP rewards of the Space Race are not very interesting, and giving game powers to each square might be better (which is what happened with 1989).
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 12:15:06 pm »
0

I thought about 3/1 VPs rewards for each of the two last squares.
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 12:36:07 pm »
0

I like, however, the idea of special bonuses for each square instead of VP awards. I suggest the following bonuses on the following squares instead of VP bonuses:
1. The player may space two cards per turn (as 2nd box works now).
2. On rolling exactly 6 the player's Space Race attempt is also successful.
3. The opponent selects and reveals the headline first (as 4th box works now).
4. The player may discard one card for the end of the turn (as 6th box works now).
5. When the player receives the China Card it is always face up (applies to Nixon as well).
6. The player decides whose Headline Events occurs first. If the opposing player must still select and reveal his Headline Event first, the player is allowed to elect that the opponent's Headline Event occurs before the player selects his own Headline Event. (as my proposal for 7th box).
7. The player may play 8 Action Rounds each Turn (as 8th box works now).
8. The Space Race is over and won. The opponent may no longer space cards. "One Small Step..." and "Captured Nazi Scientists" no longer playable as events. If the game goes to the Final Scoring, the Space Race winner scores also for the Space Race, 1VP per each box ahead.

All the best :)
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Chimista

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 06:02:00 am »
0

I like, however, the idea of special bonuses for each square instead of VP awards. I suggest the following bonuses on the following squares instead of VP bonuses:
1. The player may space two cards per turn (as 2nd box works now).
2. On rolling exactly 6 the player's Space Race attempt is also successful.
3. The opponent selects and reveals the headline first (as 4th box works now).
4. The player may discard one card for the end of the turn (as 6th box works now).
5. When the player receives the China Card it is always face up (applies to Nixon as well).
6. The player decides whose Headline Events occurs first. If the opposing player must still select and reveal his Headline Event first, the player is allowed to elect that the opponent's Headline Event occurs before the player selects his own Headline Event. (as my proposal for 7th box).
7. The player may play 8 Action Rounds each Turn (as 8th box works now).
8. The Space Race is over and won. The opponent may no longer space cards. "One Small Step..." and "Captured Nazi Scientists" no longer playable as events. If the game goes to the Final Scoring, the Space Race winner scores also for the Space Race, 1VP per each box ahead.

All the best :)

Sorry, but the reason why the space race track works in TS is because it provides:

- A way to get rid (at least temporarily) of nasty cards
- A quick retribution in VP's when there's no better option to use a card (HLing nazi scientists or One Small step to reach the VP squares when there's no better HL available is an example of this)
- A way to score desperately needed VP's

The special bonuses are just that, bonuses, not enought to be a priority (except maybe the two cards per turn bonus, which can be life saving, but not even)

Good players don't worry about spacerace bonuses, just grab them when they are within reach. Good players prefer playing their cards  and when forced to space them they would rather fail the odd roll so they don't advance too far in the track, preventing them from spacing 2ops deadly cards.

Furthermore, quite often the USSR steamrolls the US in the early game and needs just a few VP's to get a quick win before the tide changes. 1 to 4 VP awards from the space race can be gamechanging. I've been there, as most experienced players have. Your proposal would spoil this great feature (both thematically and gameplaywise) of the game.

What you suggest is to make the spacerace a completely different thing, diverting the attention from the game to a "mini-game". The implications of your proposal would probabilly be huge in the game balance.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 06:06:32 am by Chimista »
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Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 10:29:19 am »
0

The "get rid of nasty cards" mechanic would still be in play, though.

As for the VP scoring, I never gave much weight to the Space Race VPs (although I'll admit I'm not a very experienced player). There was one game I played where the USSR was able to sneak a Wargames victory after scraping a 6+ VP lead through Space Race, but that's about it.

Either way, I think OP's idea is interesting. Sure, it would change the game, which seems to be the main thrust of chimista's feedback, but OP knew that anyway when he went in to this exercise. The key thing then is whether the changes are good or bad. Chimista's critiques basically bring up the issue that you'd lose the VP dynamic - which is certainly a valid concern (though my limited experience hasn't matched chimista's). One other thing I'd toyed with was giving each square a cost (like in 1989) and you have to match that cost with OPs of the card played plus a die roll in order to succeed. If you exceed it, then the extra margin of success is your VP bonus. Not sure how that would work out, but if you allowed that for every square then a player could earn some VPs through that. (Although the range is huge - it could go from 2 to 10, so depending on where you put the bar, it could grant an unbalanced number of VPs. One way to counteract this is to have a die roll for success or failure, and then calculate the VPs based on the value of the OPs card sacrificed.)

I'm wondering about the power of pietshaq's proposed steps 2 and 5. Once you reach step 5, you could potentially play the China card every turn (provided that your opponent plays it on theirs beforehand) and permanently sequester away a couple of bad cards in your hand as hold cards. This probably won't affect the 2+ OPs cards, but it could mean the Americans salt away Lone Gunman etc. forever using constant China card punting.

The exact-6-success mechanic is very similar to the "+1 to Tiananmen Square attempt" mechanic in 1989, in that it increases the likelihood of success by +1 effectively. Some steps which require 1-4 would be very high likelihood squares.

One power in 1989 which I loved was the "may play one card per turn for BOTH the OPs and the power". They put that way at the back of the track, though, so it wouldn't unbalance the game too much (and in fact I have never seen it used thus far in about a dozen or so games of 1989).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 10:32:12 am by Comrade Pwnuby Khilemolov »
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Eruantalon

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 06:08:04 am »
0

Hi guys,

I have following idea for Space track bonuses:

Once you reach a new space you choose one - you either gain 1VP for each space you are in front of other player (max. 3) or you keep a bonus for as long, as your opponent reaches you on space track:

1st - Can space 2 cards
2nd - Can play 1op cards as 2 op cards, provided all IP's are spent in 1 region
3th - May add or substract 1 from 1 roll per Turn.
4rd - Peek at HL
5th - Discard held card
6th - Can choose not to lose influence when attempting to realign a country on his AR.
7th - Can play 1 card per turn with opponents event, without triggering the event.
8th - No card can be spaced anymore, nor space-race cards used (as in Wojtek's proposal). Can split IP's between realignments add adding influence - Realignments first and can't add inf to any country realigned this AR.
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 06:27:03 am »
0

So, if I go to 3rd (not 3th) square while my opponent is still in place, I may gain 2 VPs, space 2 cards option, and adding/subtracting 1 from roll option, and this is one of the possible sets? A little complicated for marking. Also, please clarify the exact ruling of "One Small Step" under these circumstances, provided I play it while being exactly one step behind my opponent.

"Can play 1op cards as 2 op cards, provided all IP's are spent in 1 region" -- Does it mean that 1op cards cannot be spaced? Does it make a 1Op card a 3Ops card in SE Asia with Vietnam Revolts active?
"May add or substract 1 from 1 roll per Turn." -- Does it apply to the opponent's roll as well? Does it apply to any roll, regardless of goal? Does it have to be declared before or after the roll? Can it be used to adjust roll to 0 or 7, or higher/negative numbers if there are other roll adjusters active?
"Can choose not to lose influence when attempting to realign a country on his AR." -- As far as I understand the wording, you're not protected when you attempt to realign during your headline phase?
I don't like what this bonus does to the realignment mechanics anyway. Replacement suggestion: may choose to draw one more card before the headline phase of each Turn.
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Eruantalon

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 06:49:24 am »
0

Sorry for orthography (though "3th" is more matter of pronunciation as well, i guess x D); p I can't even spell "orthography" correctly without auto-correct tool ; > (neither pronunciation, by the way)

As for marking - few tokens to place on fields where you decided to keep bonus instead of taking VP's would do.

One small Step allows you to either gain the benefit of the field you just reached, or to gain 1 VP, while at the same time might cancel the benefit of the space your opponent is on (if he choose to gain the benefit instead of VP's).

1 ops still unsaleable (it is not a region, after all). yes, makes 1op 3ops in SE Asia with Revolts (kinda strong). Only works on cards with written OP values of 1 (so 2's with Purge and +1 effect active are still 1's. So are the 1's ; >
As for rolls - apply to opponents rolls as well, of any kind (coups, realignments, wars, Summit, Olympics et. c.)
Was really looking forward to you finding some holes in my wording of realignment ability and you rose up to challenge (added "may choose" in case you argue one may want to lose ip's in order not to lose via DEFCON). I'd word it following way - if  by the player having this benefit (even on opponents turn, but f.ex. using "Tear Down this Wall") initiates realignment roll, he may choose not to lose influence in target country, even if roll would make him lose inf.
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pietshaq

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 06:55:15 am »
0

As for 1Op cards clarification:
-- Does a purged 1Op card remain a 1Op card?
-- Does a 1Op card become a 3Ops card under Brezhnev/Containment, thus even a 4Ops card with VR?

As for realignments:
-- May I choose to lose less influence than the dice had shown but not zero? Case: last "Tear Down This Wall" realignment nominally turns Poland from 7/4 for USA to 1/4 for USSR. I don't want to lose that much but I also don't want to keep it 7/4. I'd like to drop it to 6/4 to play Truman against Poland.
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Eruantalon

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Re: Space Race Boost (Proposal)
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 07:08:05 am »
0

Yes (already answered btw)
Yes
Yes
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