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Author Topic: Very Functional New Card  (Read 3008 times)

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General A-Ron

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Very Functional New Card
« on: December 09, 2014, 07:10:27 pm »
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There are times where a bad die roll is very frustrating...

Veto, neutral event, 0 Op
Begins the game separate from the early game deck.
Any player, after any die roll, may -2 VP to re-roll their die result.
A player who holds Veto incurs no cost to re-roll their die result.
After a re-roll Veto is passed to the opposing player and is available for use during their next die roll.
+2 VP for the player holding Veto at the end of the game.
If Veto is not held and both players wish to re-roll their result the phasing player gets priority.

I have toyed with the idea of giving Veto an Op's value and allowing it to pass back and forth as an Op's card however have moved away from this as it is intended to simply allow for a fair method for re-rolling horrible results.

If only one player chooses to use Veto during the game it is a 4 VP swing; if both players use it equally then it is a 0 VP swing.     
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:38:17 pm by General A-Ron »
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pietshaq

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2014, 03:00:13 am »
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If both players use Veto equally it gives +2 VPs to the player who had used it first
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General A-Ron

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2014, 09:25:34 am »
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The first person to use the card pays 2VP in order to make their re-roll; if it is used an equal amount of times then the net VP effect is always 0. The only time the net VP effect is not 0 is if the person who uses Veto first uses it one more time than their opponent does; in this case the net VP effect is -4VP (-2VP cost to use it first & +2VP to the other player for holding Veto at the end of the game).
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pietshaq

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2014, 12:48:03 pm »
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If I use it, then you use it, we are at 0 but I have Veto and I will earn +2VPs for holding it.
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General A-Ron

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2014, 02:29:50 pm »
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I can see how the text is not very clear, the original -2 VP to put Veto 'into play' only applies the first time the card is used. There would only ever be two changes to the VP track no matter how many times the card is passed back and forth, -2 VP for the player who uses Veto first and +2 VP for the player who holds the card at the end of the game. After the initial cost of -2 VP to the player who plays Veto first the only 'cost' to play the card thereafter is giving up the +2 VP that holding the card gives you at the end of the game. I have inserted a line of text to clarify this point. Long story short; if only one player re-rolls one die result in a game the opposing player is +4 VP on the transaction. If Veto is played evenly, (3 times each as an example) then the net effect is 0 VP.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:34:33 pm by General A-Ron »
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pietshaq

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 03:28:58 pm »
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Ok, now it's clear
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MollyMae

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 12:43:46 am »
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If I'm the phasing player rolling realignments and I hold the Veto card and use it to re-roll, can my opponent give it right back for the same realignment roll?

I do like the concept behind the card, but it is quite strong. 

What about using it to force your opponent to reroll?

I think, if anything, the US should start with the card.  The USSR is likely to benefit more from its existence than the US would (thinking of all those AR1 coups).
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General A-Ron

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2014, 10:24:19 am »
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Because realignment rolls occur simultaneously only one player could make a re-roll on any given realignment roll. If Veto is not held, and both players wish to re-roll, the phasing player gets to pay the 2 VP and re-roll their realignment roll. Veto would then be passed to the opposing player and would be available for their next roll; which could be the next realignment in the same player's action round. I like the idea of the option of forcing the opposing player to re-roll one of their results and I don't see why that would not work. I would say that the first person who uses the effect needs to pay the 2 VP cost which allows the other player to make the choice on a 4 VP swing or make their own re-roll option and go back to a 0 VP net effect.

Not sure that this is over powered for the USSR; to use your turn 1 example... Let's say USSR headlines Suez Crisis (and the US does not headline Defectors) and then on AR1 USSR attempts a coup in Iran... with a 1 Op card the coup is 50% successful, 2 Op card - 67% successful, 3 Op card - 83% successful, 4 Op card - 100% successful. So if the USSR uses a mid-range Op's card then the coup should be (from a probability perspective) successful. It is in the instance that one uses a 3 Op card  and rolls a 1 (coup fails) that the card would be used. So the cost of the re-roll is net 4 VP if it is not used again to negate the bad roll. Seems like a pretty reasoned trade off to me. If the US started with the card then it could simply be 'shelved' for 2 VP which is not the intent.   
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MarlesChartel

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Re: Very Functional New Card
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 05:29:05 am »
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Paying 2 VPs to reroll is a net 2 VPs. Paying the Veto card to reroll is a net 4 VPs. If veto was in the game, it would always be better to pay 2 VPs to reroll than to give away the Veto card.
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