Twilight Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Download the Twilight Strategy e-book!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?  (Read 3472 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lambolt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:52:04 am »
0

I know Destalinisation is a great card for moving into the americas and particularly Africa, but is it ever justified to burn it in Turn 1 headline for a Quick ASIA score, lets say you Destalinise, move the extra IP from Poland and East Germany to Control Afghanistan, now you dominate ASIA (with KOREA vs just Australia), for a net gain of 5 VP, though obviously you lose the card, and easy access to those areas, and youve weakened your 2 european countries and only moved 2 of the possible 4 IP, and it could be defectored...

I feel like this is probably a really bad move but just wondered, since the USSR should look to steamroll early, is it ever Worth this kind of play?
Logged

pietshaq

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • Wargameroom username: WojciechPietrzak_TS
  • Respect: +46
    • View Profile
    • My Twilight Struggle blog
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 11:33:09 am »
0

I know Destalinisation is a great card for moving into the americas and particularly Africa, but is it ever justified to burn it in Turn 1 headline for a Quick ASIA score, lets say you Destalinise, move the extra IP from Poland and East Germany to Control Afghanistan, now you dominate ASIA (with KOREA vs just Australia), for a net gain of 5 VP, though obviously you lose the card, and easy access to those areas, and youve weakened your 2 european countries and only moved 2 of the possible 4 IP, and it could be defectored...

I feel like this is probably a really bad move but just wondered, since the USSR should look to steamroll early, is it ever Worth this kind of play?

No.
Logged
If you find my contribution useful, please donate some Bitcoins: 1LTicKy5ww4tAQwLqRDHxbpKHBQ9QvcK72
My Twilight Struggle blog

lambolt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 12:57:43 pm »
0

:)
Logged

lambolt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 01:14:29 pm »
0

well, using a 3 OPS card to coup IRAN (3/0) and rolling a 1 is pretty shit I can tell you.
Logged

pietshaq

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • Wargameroom username: WojciechPietrzak_TS
  • Respect: +46
    • View Profile
    • My Twilight Struggle blog
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2015, 05:29:38 am »
+1

I guess I've played over a thousand of TS games in my life. Tell me more  :P

As for De-Stalinization, USSR cannot and should not rely on steamrolling USA. This happens but is much less common than the normal, long games, lasting even up to the Final Scoring, and even though it is not said that once the game reaches the Final Scoring it is lost for USSR. The usage of De-Stalinization described by you may give you Asia Domination once, for 5VPs, and you still can fight for them normally. For example, put 2 into Afghanistan on your first Action Round, then if USA puts 2 to Pakistan, you coup Pakistan with the China Card, and if he puts 3 or 4, you take South Korea. He will take India and, OK, your domination is stopped but USA is now vulnerable to Indo-Pakistani War in the long term. Besides, you can still make use of De-Stalinization, for example: Iran coup, recoup, De-Stal to Thailand. Just remember to use it to the full extent (1 to Venezuela and 1 to Argentina or so). It is worth even emptying Poland for a while.

De-Stalinization may provide you with access that is not reachable other way, especially to the South America. You have no other access-gainer to South America in the Early War as USSR and you don't have many of them in the Mid War: Junta and Allende come to my mind. Otherwise you have to rely on Brush War and coups.
Logged
If you find my contribution useful, please donate some Bitcoins: 1LTicKy5ww4tAQwLqRDHxbpKHBQ9QvcK72
My Twilight Struggle blog

budzo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2015, 10:38:00 am »
+1

Playing destal that way is always a mistake wchich hurts u badly later in the game (all that pietshaq said is true :) but playing Decolonization that way can be a suprisingly good idea. Imagine u have Duck and Cover in hand. U play lets say Indonesia, Burma, Algieria (to threaten France) and Thailand or SA. Then u coup Iran with D&C. With good roll... lets just say U have a good start ;) Sometimes it can be worth risking Defectors. Plain and simple. Try to think about USA counter play... thats tough.
Logged

lambolt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 03:48:23 pm »
+1

thanks for the replies, I guess I am a fair few behind 1000 plays but I'm struggling to "get it" still, I've never done well once the game gets into the later stages, whichever side I am on, I am the one always chucking scoring cards away for 0, seeing great headlines get defectored, bad rolls at bad times (which just distract from probably the real gameplay mistakes I made). Just got to keep plugging at it I guess
Logged

Riku Riekkinen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 09:38:44 am »
0

Yes, its very hard to get to Americas without de-stal. I could however headline Decol for early Asia scoring, if I also held Defectors (and did just that last night).
Logged

lambolt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2015, 02:54:41 pm »
0

wow thanks for your reply Riku, a TS celebrity no less!
Logged

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2015, 05:25:28 pm »
0

Personally I think it's not too bad a play - 5VP is a lot, and if you think you could be in the 15-20 point range within a few rounds, it might be worthwhile. Having said this, I think the lock-out from the Americas is probably a little too painful. I guess you can get in there by couping Panama and crawling your way south (or wait for Allende/Junta/etc.) but it's not as good as just dropping 1 op in Venezuela and having the continent pretty well sewn up by round 5 or 6.
Logged

MollyMae

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 02:37:12 pm »
0

I know Destalinisation is a great card for moving into the americas and particularly Africa, but is it ever justified to burn it in Turn 1 headline for a Quick ASIA score, lets say you Destalinise, move the extra IP from Poland and East Germany to Control Afghanistan, now you dominate ASIA (with KOREA vs just Australia), for a net gain of 5 VP, though obviously you lose the card, and easy access to those areas, and youve weakened your 2 european countries and only moved 2 of the possible 4 IP, and it could be defectored...

I feel like this is probably a really bad move but just wondered, since the USSR should look to steamroll early, is it ever Worth this kind of play?

I would never do this, but I have to ask.  If you did it (or say your US opponent did it), why would you move influence to Afghanistan and not Malaysia?  You would immediately have access to Thailand and stop the US from creeping up via Australia.

De-Stal isn't a very good turn 1 headline, so now that makes me think that if the US can hold on and not lose during Early War, getting rid of it right off the bat when the USSR has limited choices could be ideal.  Any influence the USSR throws in SA could possibly be removed by coup or, more likely, realignment. Of course, that costs the US precious time at a point where he doesn't already have enough of it.

EDIT: Yeah, I can really see no reason to ever headline it as the US.  I'd rather headline a low ops card, regardless of the text and play De-Stal for Ops on AR1 (but even that is dubious).  Any influence the USSR adds in AR1 is unlikely to move unless there's a strong coup in Iran.  But if there is a strong coup, the US has the option of counter couping with De-Stal first, limiting what can be moved.  Otherwise, he can let the Soviets move them and possibly have a better coup result.  This sounds good right now in my head, but I'd never put it into practice in a game. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 11:35:28 am by MollyMae »
Logged

Stryker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Headline Destalinisation for quick VP?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 02:53:44 pm »
0

There's no need for Soviets to ever move influence from Iran.  Assuming a standard USSR set up, he can move 1 influence from Finland, Yugoslavia, Poland, and E. Germany.  Even if the USA headlined EEU, Soviets can just take 1 from Finland and 3 from Poland.  An early Destal would allow Soviets to play into France, Chile, S. Africa, India, or depending on the situation, straight into Pakistan or Thailand. I think it's a huge error for USA to ever play Destal in the early war.  Pretty much *always* best to hold it until turn 3 if possible and then space it.  I think the only exception is I'd probably use it to save W. Germany from Blockade if I had no other options.  Even then, it might be better to lose WG than play Destal in Turn 1 or 2 depending on the situation.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.242 seconds with 21 queries.