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Author Topic: "Iran" opening  (Read 4807 times)

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lambolt

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"Iran" opening
« on: July 29, 2015, 01:28:34 am »
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https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19904445

What do people here think about this? And in general, how does everyone feel about the generic openings such as coup IRAN (IIRC people coup'd Italy as a default opening for a while). Without extra influence to the US, I don't see why as USSR you wouldn't coup IRAN, has anyone ever come up with a way to break up the Iran opening scenario a bit so its not so automatic (a feature I dislike in general, probably the only thing about TS that slightly bugs me). With extra US influence which effectively blocks the USSR I find it actually quite difficult - I'm by no means a very good player though (I understand this) but it also makes the Iran situation a bit "knifes edge", either its too obvious and devastating with no extra IPs, and then with extra IPS loaded there it almost feels a bit unfair the other way (though perhaps thats good until one gets more competent with the US). Just wondered if more accomplished players or with more experience had looked into ways to break up the "oh what will you do in AR1" routine, and if the designer has ever commented on that, or expressed any regret in that opening being so clearly signposted as an almost automatic option (especially without extra IPs)

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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 01:50:03 am »
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It depends on headlines, I've also seen competent players go into Thailand via Vietnam, go into Afghanistan and Libya via Nasser, or spread out from Burma as a result of a Cambridge 5 headline finding Asia scoring. If CIA is headlined then that point can be useful too. I once dropped a point into Pakistan and then won the war after the USSR couped. AR1 Pakistan 5,0 is quite nice!
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Cal

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2015, 04:49:03 am »
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The standard is US +3 at setup now?  ???

Soon the standard will be US +6 at setup and people will still say the US is terribly disadvantaged.   ;D
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budzo

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 10:15:18 am »
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Standard is +2.

Coup is good. 2 Afgh 2 Iraq is also good. Then USA plays 4 to Pakistan and it also comes to coup then.

I would say:

If u have 4 ops card - seriously consider couping.

I have a lot of experience playing us +0 - it is extremaly painful to be low on me. What is more if Turn 1 he was sues or succesful Arab-Israeli War - being out of middle east is the worst possible scenario for your AR1.

If u have decol or Vietnam - coup (I u end up with one or 2 in Iran and the opponent coups back - you are free to go se asia.

If u have duck and cover and decol/vietnam - risk defectors and play one of them in the headline and coup with duck and cover - this gives u wonderful position.
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Anders2004

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 07:57:03 pm »
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I don't think you can risk Decol getting Defectored. Vietnam, sure.
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budzo

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2015, 04:45:33 pm »
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Imagine having acess to all se Asia, India and France. On how many threads can USA player react?
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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 06:50:34 pm »
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If you have Defectors in your hand... otherwise have patience and don't risk it. The access is vital for the USSR.
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Anders2004

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 11:36:02 pm »
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Exactly.
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budzo

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 11:49:12 am »
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The odds of USA having defectors in hand (while u dont have it) are about 25%. U have to take some risk if u want to win games on high level, u wont win many games by just playing standard. With 75-25 odds id definetly risk it considering the profit of succes wchich is really high.
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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2015, 07:17:47 am »
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You can get the access AR2 with no risk. Of course you may lose Thailand if your opponent moves into Malaysia and uses a 4 ops to make it 4/1 but I think that this is the kind of play that's only worth making if you have D&C and feel you can only win by playing in an aggressive fashion and trusting to luck. I've defectored Decol a few times and it's had a massive effect on play. High level players take calculated risks in my limited experience. Over on BGG we've been playing Jarek Moc in a forum game and he couped Iraq t1 ar1 for example...
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budzo

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 01:44:48 pm »
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Having decol defectored has the same impact on the game that not drawing it :> I would say its even better than drawing it by usa.

U have to be aggresive to win the game. This game is based on luck - exactly: on calculating risks and taking those that are worth taking.

Couping iraq can be good or not good depends on the situation on board in this case depends on what USSR has done.

I would say it can be a good call in case: defcon is 5, USSR do not threaten domination in Asia (by taking Afghanistan and possiblity of having Asia scoring). It can be dangerous also for one reason: if USSR have no inf in any battleground outside Europe and Asia u may not be able to drop defcon from 3 to 2 if Iraq coup was succesful.
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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2015, 10:38:43 pm »
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If you don't draw Decol you can at least give the US the difficult choice of being Blockaded or letting it back into the reshuffle... If headling Decol works out for you then have fun with it. Given that an AR2 play of it still forces the opponent to choose whether to save France or Thailand I remain unconvinced.

Jarek couped Iraq as Iran was 0/0 at DEFCON 4 and it worked out for him... (he also held Decol I think) but his dice have been hot  >:(
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budzo

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 04:41:47 pm »
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Im not sure if we understand each other correctly but i say about a situation in wchich u have D&C in hand. In that situation Thailand is definetely lost for US, same goes with India, if coup roll is good then us is also out of iran - with possible recoup.

As US u have the choice - u recoup Iran counting on high roll, take France before de Gualle and Sues wchich is also bad, or coup Algieria (after that imagine being hit with sues or Arab Israeli War). What is more u lose all SE Asia - probably for the whole game.

I consider couping Iraq at def 4 as a high risk play - even if he held decol theres Destal in Vietnam still in deck that gives USSR big advantage in Asia run.

Id consider dropping defcon to 3 as USA only when i can coup Iran with 1 or 2 soviet inf - then the profit of taking Iran (acess to Pakistan-India and Iran itself) is worth taking risk of being hit by decol. In other cases i would not drop defcon (unless u do it with CIA played by USSR)
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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 04:29:44 am »
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Well, Jarek's better than either of us...

If you play Decol AR2 then the US may or may not get Thailand (and will lose France or India anyway) was my point. Decol is such a powerful card there's no need to rush with it.

Your idea has 2 risks, couping Iran (3/0?) with D&C  is 50/50 and if it fails you give up the triangle. If Decol is defectored then you lose much more. So I would say this plan has a greater than 50% risk of running into trouble. I might consider it depending on my hand, but would be far happier to try it with Vietnam than Decol.
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Warpimp

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 07:57:23 am »
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The Iran opening is probably my least favorite part of this game. It almost makes the whole ordeal luck based, as it is such a deciding factor. What are some good strategies to just avoid it all together?
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KiG

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Re: "Iran" opening
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 08:50:50 am »
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It depends on your hand but here's some wild stuff for Iran 3*/0 starts...

Destal (you hold Defectors) to France, Chile, 2 Malaysia AR1 score Asia

Nasser- AR1 Play to Afghanistan & Libya

Soc Gov- D&C takes Italy, or 2 Afghanistan, 1 Italy, 1 WG.

Coup Italy- you only need a 3+ w/ Yugoslavia vs WG4 Italy 3

Vietnam Revolts- AR1 Thailand & Laos

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