Twilight Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Download the Twilight Strategy e-book!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: US AR1 options, no +inf.  (Read 4257 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
US AR1 options, no +inf.
« on: December 18, 2015, 10:39:59 pm »
0

As the US player, I am often really hesitant to coup back iran if I lose it to the opening coup. Of course I'll try if there is 1 or 2 inf there, but once there is 3+ I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I'm afraid of failing the coup, and essentially giving up my turn for a couple of VP. This is in our games at home with the same small group of people, optional cards, and no +inf.

Whenever I have tried to track down game replays, they almost always have the US couping back and succeeding, since the USSR coup wasn't that strong to begin with. I never know what to do on this turn after losing Iran.  I often end up:

Playing into Lebanon/Jordan for ME access and protection against Arab-Israeli. This is often responded to with an easy coup by the USSR player, esp in Lebanon.
Playing 2 into Egypt before Nassir. Same problem, I often end up getting couped immediately - though this does allow me to start playing in Asia.
Playing 1 into S.Korea. Despite the threat of the Korean war, I don't like to just hand over S.Korea. I usually won't play heavily into it, but 1 inf prevents them from dropping 4 ops in it.
Playing into Europe, with an eye on the Mediterranean + France. This can leave me vulnerable to DeGaulle/Suez. It also doesn't do much for my board position
Playing into Panama/S.Africa. Whilst I have no other priorities, dropping an inf into these countries saves me doing it later, and means the USSR can't coup/flip them as easily without an event.


Whilst these are reasonable plays, they seem quite weak and vulnerable on AR1, but I'm unsure what better options are. Obviously a definite answer cannot be given without knowing the contents of my hand, but I would much appreciate some general guidelines. Am I perhaps being too conservative about the Iran counter coup?
Logged

Jack Rudd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
  • Respect: +17
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 11:19:40 am »
0

What about *both* Lebanon and Egypt? He can't coup both countries on one action round.
Logged

MichaelVal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 12:09:50 pm »
0

2 to Egypt is strongest in general.
Logged

Anders2004

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Wargameroom username: Anders2004
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 04:20:52 pm »
0

I like 2 to Egypt. Spreading from Israel is very important at that point. I'm not a big fan of playing into S. Korea if Korean War is out there ... maybe it's not such a bad play if the USSR couped with US/Japan, but I still don't like it. That may be more of a style/preference thing though.
Logged

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 09:37:34 pm »
0

I'm afraid of playing to Egypt, since if he successfully coups, it undoes my move, and locks me out of libya. Also let's him keep Nasser around in the deck.  I think if I were playing into 2 countries, I would play into Jordan as well for access, rather than Lebanon.
Logged

KiG

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2015, 04:20:23 am »
0

If he coups then DEFCON is at 3, so you get the last coup on Iran with access to India & Pakistan if you are lucky. And you can counter coup Egypt if you prefer. And the coup may well fail. Coups are overrated in general. Adding some influence for the US is probably a good idea though.
Logged

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 12:35:03 am »
0

I'm generally afraid to coup Iran if it has 3+ inf in it. That's 50% if you play a 4op, and that's so many ops to throw at a maybe as the US. I'll often rely on indo-pakistan, or forcing my way into iran/pakistan before he takes pakistan/india to get back into west asia. Unless a timely Vietnam revolts or decol comes up, I can usually count on getting at least thailand & japan, and then ussiri/formosan/shuttle is enough to prevent a horribly lopsided scoring.
Logged

MichaelVal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 01:48:25 pm »
0

If he coups you in Egypt, then place 1 in Malaysia.  Keep at least a 3 op to take Thailand next turn in case he responds with either Decol or Vietnam.  If you have spare ops, then what you do with them depends upon the results of his Egypt coup.  Options include Libya if the coup failed to knock you out of Egypt, Egypt if it knocked you out but failed to gain control, Lebanon if coup gained control and you're worried about being knocked out of the Mideast entirely, and otherwise Costa Rica if coup gained control. 

I'd respond to a coup of Egypt by couping back only if I were confident that he lacks access to SE Asia.  Generally, Thailand is too important to risk losing it by delaying the move to Malaysia.
Logged

KiG

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 06:28:48 pm »
0

Michael is probably right but you strike me as being too risk-averse in your play. It's not like a 50/50 shot of getting 2-3 battlegrounds (and 2VP from mil ops) isn't a good deal! In fact I'd suggest that you experimented with going crazy sometime with 1 Malaysia, 1 Colombia, 1 Angola or similar sometime at Defcon 4. Not because it's a perfect move but because good US players make the USSR sweat and rolling dice while doing new things is fun!
Logged

budzo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 07:08:38 pm »
0

Egypt is the strongest play IMHO. If he coups u play Malaysia and Jordan (if coup was sucessful). There can be no chance to play Egypt later (like after succesful Arab Israeli War).

If u have 4 ops and Europe scoring u can play 3 France 1 Jordan but this is somehow unconsistent.

The thing is u have to play at least one OP in Middle East because if not then Sues can kill you (no presence in ME)

Another thing is: u shouldnt be the first player that drops defcon below 4. There s 3 cards that give USSR player access to SE Asia, if u lose Iran and SE Asia then ur in big big trouble. Thats why Egypt is a good move. Smart USSR player wont coup it (there is too much risk of unsucesfull coup and u lose Thailand for sure).

In case: High Iran coup and Sues/sucesful Arab Israeli War - u have no choice but to coup Syria.
Logged

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 10:24:07 pm »
0

Keep at least a 3 op to take Thailand next turn in case he responds with either Decol or Vietnam.

Assuming they drop 1 into thailand with decol/destal wouldn't I need 4 ops to prevent losing thailand to the china card?

Michael is probably right but you strike me as being too risk-averse in your play

You might be correct. I'm not sure.

Here are a couple of recent games, and the only ones I have played online. I would love some feed back. In the first game I was the US, in the second I was the USSR.
Logged

budzo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2016, 05:16:38 am »
0

Keep at least a 3 op to take Thailand next turn in case he responds with either Decol or Vietnam.

Assuming they drop 1 into thailand with decol/destal wouldn't I need 4 ops to prevent losing thailand to the china card?

Michael is probably right but you strike me as being too risk-averse in your play

You might be correct. I'm not sure.

Here are a couple of recent games, and the only ones I have played online. I would love some feed back. In the first game I was the US, in the second I was the USSR.

Ur Right 4 ops is needed.

As to your US game:

Ar 1 Not sure what hand u had but Securing Afghanistan and Iran with 3 ops could be good.

Ar 2 Turkey inf is wasted inf. Much better to play into West Germany (opponent already played Blockade for ops and it would not come back until turn 3 - then u can discard Destal or whatever u want). What is more i would take Pakistan with whatever ops u have 3 or 4 just to prevent the move Soviet player used on his AR 3

Triangle Iran - Afghanistan - Pakistan is the core of the first turn. If u controll all of them you are in the good shape.

U shouldnt also leave Thailand empty at the end of the turn it just asks to be Decolonized.

T2 - before every action round its a good habit to check: Wchich scorings were not played? Does opponent have domination in regions that were not played? Can i prevent that domiantion ?

U shouldnt give up on Europe so easily.

Logged

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2016, 07:39:44 pm »
0

I am often hesitant to play into asia before defcon 3 for fear of being couped out. I allowed him to play into it, hoping my US/Jap 4ops would allow me to coup it back from him or at least give me 1 inf for norad & india access. In retrospect I see what you mean however. I am unsure, but I believe I played into turkey, because I was afraid of losing europe dom, since I started with empty WG, and he had access via syria. Our games tend to involve a lot of emphasis on the mediterranean. Esp without an early Marshall.

If you keep watching, I actually lose WG in a stupid way. This was my first game without a physical board, so I just didn't notice him grab it.

My hand was:

Red Scare
Defectors
Ind. Reds
US/Jap
Suez Crisis
Spec. Relationship
Korean War
Decolonization. (Then I drew destal turn 3. Yuck. But better than him pulling them.)

I couldn't play 3 into Iran/Afghanistan without playing Suez before moving out of israel, or playing US/Jap (which I wanted to save for something important). I quite possibly should have used the ops from Red Scare instead of headlining it, but with that hand, I wanted to grab any advantage I could.


T2 - before every action round its a good habit to check: Wchich scorings were not played? Does opponent have domination in regions that were not played? Can i prevent that domiantion

This is something I try to do. I might have slipped there however.


Thanks for taking a look! I know those replays are a pain to parse for an observer. I might write up the first few turns to make it easier.
Logged

budzo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 10:38:48 am »
0

Well healdining RSP turn one cant be a bad idea i think.

U have better odds of succes if u play 4 into Pakistan and w8 for coup than if u coup yourself
U have 50% chance that China Card coup will not add any USSR points, 33% that u will be left with some points and only 33% that Pakistan will be controlled by USSR- what is more when USSR player is purged these values get much more in your favour and u get to play China Card on turn 2 - possible holding destal and decol in your hand or discarding to blockade and holding one of 2).

Never do it wo controlling any of Afghanistan/Iran unless u have Indo-Pak in hand.

Counting on dice is what are trying to avoid as much as possible in Twlight Struggle (the fact that the dice can win games is another thing and a sad fact)
Logged

19orange

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 01:32:18 am »
0

Counting on dice is what XXXXX are trying to avoid as much as possible in Twlight Struggle (the fact that the dice can win games is another thing and a sad fact)

Which pronoun did you mean?
Logged

MichaelVal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: US AR1 options, no +inf.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 10:20:04 am »
0

Counting on lucky rolls is bad.  Fearing unlucky rolls is equally bad.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.086 seconds with 20 queries.