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Author Topic: What to do as USSR with average start hand?  (Read 8476 times)

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Billw147

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What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« on: November 11, 2012, 03:42:34 am »
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Had this opening hand recently as USSR in a game with +1influence to US, placed in Iran to give two starting IP there.

Truman Doctrine 1op
East European Unrest 3op
Fidel 1op
Korean War 2op
Special Relationship 2op
5 Year Plan 3op
Indo-Pakistani War 2op
Defectors 2op

The Iran coup seemed a bad move to me so I started placing influence and left defcon at 5, as did US player.  US headlined Marshall plan and had Europe locked down.

Any suggestions as best way to play USSR. Would you coup with China card?
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Cal

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 04:37:23 am »
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Interesting hand.

I think I would play Five Year Plan for the opening coup of Iran. Just let luck decide what card gets discarded. The hand doesn't have any particular strong Soviet events that would be horrible to lose at this point, nor does it have any really strong US events. (Worst case scenario is activating East European Unrest.)

That or you can use Korean War or even Defectors for the ops and just hope to roll more than a 2.

edit: Also, pretty sure Fidel is 2-op.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 04:55:40 am by Cal »
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Billw147

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 03:00:30 am »
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Couping Iran may have been the better option but is a 50% gamble using 3 ops. What would be your second play if you rolled a 1 or 2 and US followed up by having 2 influence in both Iran and Afghanistan, with defcon now at 4?
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JGH

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 01:47:22 pm »
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If I failed the Iran coup, and points were put into Iran+Afghanistan, I might stick 1-2 points into South Korea, and play Korean war both for the chance to take it as well as the mil-ops. With a low hand like that, I might be unwilling to coup this turn and lower defcon, since my next hand will likely be better, and a high defcon might be a good thing to have on turn two.

So I stick some points in South Korea, and then play in Europe towards France, acting as if I might have some friendly Europe events. So a point into Italy to play towards France, (only after you've used up the Truman doctrine event, of course).

------

Another potential move is to not involve yourself in the Iran coup at all, and use the China card to place two points in Afghanistan and two points in Iraq. You're then threatening the realign in Iran. A coup of Afghanistan would be a high-cost move for your opponent (since he'd realistically need to use a four ops, and wouldn't really solve his problem, since he'd need a 4 or higher to control the country. If he doesn't get the four or higher, you realign Iran at +1. Furthermore, he might simply move towards placing points in ¨Pakistan, which allows you to use your indo-Pakistani war with a lower negative modifier. So that's a possibility as well.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 01:48:29 pm by JGH »
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bsheehan34

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 02:13:12 pm »
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if you play 2 ops into s korea why not just take it with the ops from the card...this keeps it in the deck and discourages the us from fighting for it down the road.  If you trigger the event and it fails then the us can start fighting for it.you dont need mil ops after your opening coup anyways.
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JGH

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 02:53:55 pm »
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Didn't explain myself correctly. If you stick two points in SK, a US move might be to protect it, in which case you use Korean War to take it. If he doesn't, then of course you use Korean war for ops.
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zzzii

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 10:08:44 pm »
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Given your hand, I would play like this:

There will be no hold card, Five yr plan will be played in AR6 to discard Truman.

There's no good headline option, hence I will headline Defectors to save 1VP.

All cards will be played for ops with one possible exception being Indo-Pakistan war just in case US controls pakistan.

Overall strategy will be to give up Europe and focus on Asia and ME. Start with 5 in Poland 1 in EG and no influence in Yugoslavia as usual. In AR1 there are two options, either coup Iran with EEU and wipe out influence in Finland so you lose nothing later on to Truman, or you use a 2op card to control afganistan. Since you have Indo-Pakistan war, you can afford the coup war in pakistan, even if dice roll goes against you, you still have a chance to wipe US out of west asia.

Fidel will be played for ops as you do not want the exposure in third world bg that early, to minimize the risk of CIA.

Special Relationship can be played for ops as well, but feel free to space it if you like.

Korean war will usually be played for ops, but if US dares putting too much influence in SK, you can use the event to take your chance.

DO NOT play china card this turn! It is vital that the Soviet save the china card to deal with future problems like CIA. Plus, you need to make sure that FYP will discard Truman, playing China card will make you hold 1 more card and hence you won't be able to achieve it with 100% certainty.

Forgot to mention one thing, you said your opponent headlined Marshall Plan. This should be a foreseeable move as US starting setup will deviate from standard setup if he is going to healine Marshall. Hence, this makes Europe even less attractive to you, you would rather give it up and concentrate on the other two areas.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 11:01:53 pm by zzzii »
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SnowFire

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 11:32:57 pm »
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Not doing an Iran coup or some kind of Italy play would require exceptional circumstances, for me.  Anyway, I'd:
* Headline Fidel.  It's a bit early and turns on CIA, but it's the only USSR event I'd actually want to trigger.
* Definitely coup Iran, and doubly so after a US Headline of Marshall Plan - just give up on Europe except for maybe ninja'ing France later to deny domination, but that makes taking Asia & the ME more important.
* I personally would coup with China; we are only up a creek on a roll of 1, then, while using EEU has a 1/3 chance of being in deep trouble.  Double the odds!
* Once the Iran situation has cooled down (hopefully in the USSR's favor), definitely drop some influence in South Korea to provoke a response.  If the US ignores this, you can maybe just walk in.  If the US reacts, Korean War gets better.
* Ideally save Indo-Pak for until DEFCON hits 2 and control of Iran is known.  It can be maybe used as an event then, or more likely just used to walk into Pakistan knowing that it's safe.
* Most likely play 5-year Plan on AR6, with a hand of Truman & Defectors.  If I don't need the extra op and Europe scoring wasn't played by the US player, maaaaaaaybe hold 5YP & Truman Plan instead in the hopes of throwing a drawn Europe Scoring away on turn 2, but that's probably getting a bit over-fancy and also opening myself up to a hand of both 5YP and CIA Created.  (Which might not be too horrible, a 1 ops American coup on AR1 of Turn 2 is unlikely to be that deadly with only Cuba & Iran as notable targets, unless the US player was chivalrous enough to let you Decol on turn 1 or something.)
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Julio

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 02:25:22 am »
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If you have in your hand East European Unrest and Defectors, why not headline Truman?
You only lose Finland, get rid of a low ops card and a big future problem.
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SnowFire

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 03:02:30 am »
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Truman isn't really a problem though, because it's in your hand.  So long as you never invest in Europe unless you also take control of a country, it's harmless.  (I guess uh if your opponent plays Comecon, you might end up with spreading out more than you might normally so your 2 in Yugoslavia don't get nuked, but that's about it.)  It is however a 1 op you'd like to throw away, so it's probably the second-best headline if you don't want to headline Fidel.
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Nightlyraver

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 09:35:45 am »
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Not doing an Iran coup or some kind of Italy play would require exceptional circumstances, for me.  Anyway, I'd:
* Headline Fidel.  It's a bit early and turns on CIA, but it's the only USSR event I'd actually want to trigger.
* Definitely coup Iran, and doubly so after a US Headline of Marshall Plan - just give up on Europe except for maybe ninja'ing France later to deny domination, but that makes taking Asia & the ME more important.
* I personally would coup with China; we are only up a creek on a roll of 1, then, while using EEU has a 1/3 chance of being in deep trouble.  Double the odds!
* Once the Iran situation has cooled down (hopefully in the USSR's favor), definitely drop some influence in South Korea to provoke a response.  If the US ignores this, you can maybe just walk in.  If the US reacts, Korean War gets better.
* Ideally save Indo-Pak for until DEFCON hits 2 and control of Iran is known.  It can be maybe used as an event then, or more likely just used to walk into Pakistan knowing that it's safe.
* Most likely play 5-year Plan on AR6, with a hand of Truman & Defectors.  If I don't need the extra op and Europe scoring wasn't played by the US player, maaaaaaaybe hold 5YP & Truman Plan instead in the hopes of throwing a drawn Europe Scoring away on turn 2, but that's probably getting a bit over-fancy and also opening myself up to a hand of both 5YP and CIA Created.  (Which might not be too horrible, a 1 ops American coup on AR1 of Turn 2 is unlikely to be that deadly with only Cuba & Iran as notable targets, unless the US player was chivalrous enough to let you Decol on turn 1 or something.)


^^^
This, would definitely be my standard play.
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Nightlyraver

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2012, 09:38:27 am »
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If you have in your hand East European Unrest and Defectors, why not headline Truman?
You only lose Finland, get rid of a low ops card and a big future problem.

Why would you do that?  As USSR, you always want to get rid of this card early, but you certainly do not have to headline it.  Just use it for ops, and if Finland is the only legal target, then you can even use the 1 op to put one back into Finland and make it a null AR.
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theory

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 09:50:20 am »
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If you have in your hand East European Unrest and Defectors, why not headline Truman?
You only lose Finland, get rid of a low ops card and a big future problem.

Why would you do that?  As USSR, you always want to get rid of this card early, but you certainly do not have to headline it.  Just use it for ops, and if Finland is the only legal target, then you can even use the 1 op to put one back into Finland and make it a null AR.


The Finland influence can be replaced later too.  It's often a nice headline only because you're giving up just 1 Op.  For example I'd rather headline Truman than Olympic Games; I get an extra Op elsewhere at the expense of an influence in Finland.
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Ioan76_TM

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 03:14:50 am »
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Having Truman out-of-play with an acceptable cost is probably one of the most important pre-requisite for a possible USSR long domination in Europe - so I'd favor it too.  :)
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Nightlyraver

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 07:32:30 pm »
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If you have in your hand East European Unrest and Defectors, why not headline Truman?
You only lose Finland, get rid of a low ops card and a big future problem.

Why would you do that?  As USSR, you always want to get rid of this card early, but you certainly do not have to headline it.  Just use it for ops, and if Finland is the only legal target, then you can even use the 1 op to put one back into Finland and make it a null AR.


The Finland influence can be replaced later too.  It's often a nice headline only because you're giving up just 1 Op.  For example I'd rather headline Truman than Olympic Games; I get an extra Op elsewhere at the expense of an influence in Finland.

Interesting point.  You want that one op extra that badly?  Even with the big advantage on the Olympic Games roll to get 2vp? 
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Julio

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2012, 02:24:58 am »
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Why are you talking about Olympic Games?
It is not in the commented starting hand. The only two interesting headlines are Fidel and Truman.
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zzzii

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 04:51:30 am »
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Why are you talking about Olympic Games?
It is not in the commented starting hand. The only two interesting headlines are Fidel and Truman.

I don't know why nobody commented on my suggestions. Headline Defector, use FYP to drop Truman, Indo-Paki war for possible event, all others for op, and save China card for future use. I don't think any suggestions above gave a better all-around solution than this.

And, whether or not to coup Iran in AR1 depends on the game setup, if the game starts with US +2 or more, then it's certainly not recommended to coup with EEU in AR1. No-brainer coup in AR1 is no longer a dominating strategy for USSR nowadays.
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Julio

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 07:46:17 am »
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If you headline Truman and space the Plan, you can also hold Defectors till turn 3.
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Billw147

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 08:18:06 am »
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The game set up is 2 inf in Iran, hence the post when not holding an obvious card to coup with.

I think your thoughts are good ones zzzii except that Truman should always be played by USSR to remove from game.

I also like the previous posters idea of spacing 5YP and holding defectors to turn 3, if the 3 ops can be spared....
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Eruantalon

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 09:46:44 am »
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If some region goes very wrong, you may consider holding 5YP. if you get lucky, you may be able to discard the scoring card using it.
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theory

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 10:10:49 am »
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Interesting point.  You want that one op extra that badly?  Even with the big advantage on the Olympic Games roll to get 2vp? 

On Turn 1, absolutely.

Why are you talking about Olympic Games?
It is not in the commented starting hand. The only two interesting headlines are Fidel and Truman.

Just as an example of why you might want to headline Truman.

I don't know why nobody commented on my suggestions. Headline Defector, use FYP to drop Truman, Indo-Paki war for possible event, all others for op, and save China card for future use. I don't think any suggestions above gave a better all-around solution than this.

I think that's fine, but I would probably save FYP for next turn and maybe try to drop a scoring card then if something disastrous happens.  Losing 1 influence in Finland or Yugoslavia is really not a big deal and doesn't require FYP's intervention.
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Tony32280

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 10:21:38 am »
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Had this opening hand recently as USSR in a game with +1influence to US, placed in Iran to give two starting IP there.

Truman Doctrine 1op
East European Unrest 3op
Fidel 1op
Korean War 2op
Special Relationship 2op
5 Year Plan 3op
Indo-Pakistani War 2op
Defectors 2op

The Iran coup seemed a bad move to me so I started placing influence and left defcon at 5, as did US player.  US headlined Marshall plan and had Europe locked down.

Any suggestions as best way to play USSR. Would you coup with China card?

My setup would have been 5 INF in EG and 4 INF in Poland.  From there, I would have headlined Korean War.  If you get lucky, you can knock out the USA.  With USA headlining Marshall, you now have a choice, Asia or Europe?  I would give up Europe and go after Asia.  On AR1, I would coup Iran with EEUnrest.  You have a 50/50 shot of knocking your opponent out of Iran.  If you can do that, coup Panama on AR2 using Defectors.  Most USA players won't coup Iran in AR2.  AR3 depends on what happens in AR1.  If you get INF in Iran but not control in AR1, I would play the China Card to control Afghanistan and Pakistan.  If the USA still has INF in Iran, use Fidel in AR3 to coup Iran or place INF.  Then on AR4, play the China card into Asia where it is safe.  Everything in this game is situational.  But that would be my plan with your hand.
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bsheehan34

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 07:17:51 pm »
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Korean war event with only 1 us influence doesn't seem like a very good use of the card.

I like the headline Truman, eeu for the opening coup and hold five year plan.

Setup 5 e ger 4 Poland.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 07:20:41 pm by bsheehan34 »
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zzzii

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 08:31:43 pm »
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The game set up is 2 inf in Iran, hence the post when not holding an obvious card to coup with.

I think your thoughts are good ones zzzii except that Truman should always be played by USSR to remove from game.

I also like the previous posters idea of spacing 5YP and holding defectors to turn 3, if the 3 ops can be spared....

FYI, If you play FYP and drop Truman, it will be triggered and removed from the game!

Holding FYP is certainly ideal for future bad events or scoring card, but in this case, USSR's ops are already very limited, I believe the US pressure will likely force USSR to play FYP for 3ops. In addition, someone above talked about headline Fidel and hold FYP, this is quite risky if USSR ends up drawing CIA in turn 2.
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zzzii

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Re: What to do as USSR with average start hand?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2012, 08:53:20 pm »
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Interesting point.  You want that one op extra that badly?  Even with the big advantage on the Olympic Games roll to get 2vp? 

On Turn 1, absolutely.

Why are you talking about Olympic Games?
It is not in the commented starting hand. The only two interesting headlines are Fidel and Truman.

Just as an example of why you might want to headline Truman.

I don't know why nobody commented on my suggestions. Headline Defector, use FYP to drop Truman, Indo-Paki war for possible event, all others for op, and save China card for future use. I don't think any suggestions above gave a better all-around solution than this.

I think that's fine, but I would probably save FYP for next turn and maybe try to drop a scoring card then if something disastrous happens.  Losing 1 influence in Finland or Yugoslavia is really not a big deal and doesn't require FYP's intervention.

Theory aren't you a bit self contradicting here? You want the truman 1op badly in turn 1 yet you can afford to hold a 3op FYP? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Holding FYP for europe scoring is a viable option, but not of very high priority. For Europe domination the US will have to invest in France and if US doesn't have Degaulle it's quite costly to do so.

Hold no card in turn 1 also slightly increases the probability that USSR get to draw Decol and Destal in turn 2. For the same logic, since Decol and Destal haven't shown up yet, it is vital that the USSR save the China card at least for turn 1 so that the US cannot hold both of them to turn 3.
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