Twilight Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Download the Twilight Strategy e-book!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Rare situations to see in a game.  (Read 8194 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +55
    • View Profile
Rare situations to see in a game.
« on: November 15, 2012, 04:25:16 am »
+1

Hello,

I was beginning to reflect on average gameplay and what moves you come to expect in an average game of Twilight Struggle. I thought of some situations that you usually don't see, but which are technically possible and was wondering everyone's thoughts.

Level 1: Uncommon, but not rare.

US has influence in: Vietnam, Gulf States, Cuba before Fidel.
Vietnam Revolts gives Vietnam to the USSR with 2inf, so it's uncommon to see the US with influence in Vietnam unless Vietnam Revolts has been spaced/played for ops after Turn3 or the US risks wasting an influence point in there for an extra vp with SE Asia scoring.
Gulf States usually lacks US influence because it's a 3-stability country, and the US has easier access to Lebanon and Jordan. Occasionally you might see a random influence point placed there with Puppet Governments if there's no other viable countries for it, but that's about it.
The US usually waits to realign Fidel out of Cuba before trying to take control there, but there are exceptions when it can send Fidel to space in Turn3 (or possibly the USSR plays it for ops).

USSR has influence in: Japan, Benelux/Denmark.
US-Japan Mutual Defense Pact will give Japan to the US for free, so the USSR usually leaves it alone. However, if US-Japan has been discarded, the USSR might be brave enough to play the China Card and take Japan with the five-ops. Even if US-Japan has been activated, I've seen bold USSR players match influence with the US in Japan, then take it with another 4-op card next AR because the US had no response. Japan is adjacent to the US, so there is incentive for the USSR to risk this, but it's not common. Benelux/Denmark are both usually forgotten because they're stability-3 and the USSR doesn't get free influence there like it does with Comecon and Warsaw Pact in E. Europe. However, a USSR who has all the Europe bgs except W. Germany may be inclined to take Denmark to help with realignment purposes. Benelux a little less so because a normal Special Relationship can affect it.

Either country has influence in: Ivory Coast, El Salvador/Dominican Republic.
These countries are often neglected because there are other countries nearby that give better advantages in positioning. Or in Ivory Coast's case, are less in stability. It's possible to see influence in these countries if one side is trying to deny another domination, or get an edge in realigning Nigeria, but it's uncommon.

Level 2: Rare.

US has influence in: Hungary/Bulgaria/Yugoslavia.
The US doesn't have a lot of incentive to go into E. Europe, at least not until John Paul and the good Late War cards come out. Austria and Czechoslovakia give good realignment bonuses against E. Germany with Tear Down This Wall so you sometimes see the US play into there. Finland and Romania are both adjacent to the USSR, so there is a scoring incentive, and Independent Reds and Marshall Plan can sometimes encourage the US to take these. But the rest... Yugoslavia might be tempting if NATO isn't active and the US needs another guard against an Italy Brush War, and sometimes Independent Reds will give the US 1inf there, but usually not.  Hungary and Bulgaria though are the most worthless in terms of positioning and you only see US influence there in rare situations of a land-grab in Europe.

USSR has influence in: Canada.
It's rare to see the USSR with influence here for the simple fact that it would have to go through the UK and the US starts with 2inf there. I cannot say it's unheard of though, because I have seen situations where the USSR has gone to Canada, either through a very strange De-Stalinization, or through a play of The Reformer and placing influence in Canada to cancel NORAD. Rarer still is a game where the USSR actually tries to take control of Canada, a very unorthodox way to earn an extra vp.

Either country has influence in: Bolivia, West African States/Somalia/Kenya, Norway/Sweden.
Bolivia is the least worthwhile non-bg in South America in terms of positioning and I have only seen influence played into it by a desperate USSR trying to prevent US Control. Even Ecuador gets the occasional influence through trying to wind through to Chile, but Bolivia goes nowhere.
These Africa stability-2 non-bg countries have no relevant positioning and you're much more likely to see Africa Domination change via a coup war than a player playing into them. Only situation that would give play into them incentive would be if one side was under Cuban Missile Crisis and therefore had to try to gain/prevent Africa Domination without a coup.
Norway/Sweden are usually empty because of their sky-high 4-stability. Once in a while you might see a US who has no other target put influence there from Marshall Plan, but even in the event of a Europe land-grab, Norway and Sweden are left for last at best.

Level 3: Never. (Play into these countries is technically possible but never seen. If you have seen these plays, please tell us the situation.)

US has influence in: Romania before Romanian Abdication is played.
Romania, Cuba, and Iran with Iranian Hostage Crisis are the only countries that are outright given to the USSR. All others merely place influence that the US can off-set. Fidel and Iranian Hostage Crisis can be spaced in usual circumstances, but Romanian Abdication cannot. Despite the USSR adjacency, this card is what keeps the US away from Romania. Even if the US does take Romania, it will usually be through an Independent Reds-Truman Doctrine combination, or possibly if the USSR sends Romania's influence away with De-Stalinization and leaves it open.

USSR has influence in: Australia, United Kingdom (beyond purposes of spoiling).
Australia is the most pro-US country in the game. It starts out controlled, is adjacent only to Malaysia, is stability-4, and is located in Asia which has defcon-4 restrictions. Every USSR player dreams wistfully of attaining Control of Asia and then using 2ops to break control of Australia and deny the US any Asia presence, but this is sheer fantasy. The only possible situation I could imagine (that is, I had this suggested to me) for the USSR having influence in Australia would be through a very strange Cambridge Five event. The only other country on the board that is adjacent to only one country is Dominican Republic, and at least that's only stability-1.
Meanwhile, the USSR has absolutely no business in the UK, unless it's to prevent Special Relationship from activating because of the powered-up NATO version of the event, or the rarer situation of to remove US presence in Europe. Even if the USSR player did suffer some lack of common sense and attempt to spend the ops to flip control of the only stability-5 country in the game, the very existence of The Iron Lady will either deter or punish him severely for it.

Suggestions? Comments?
Logged

Ioan76_TM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 08:03:54 am »
0

Level 1: Uncommon, but not rare.

US has influence in: Vietnam, Gulf States, Cuba before Fidel.
{...}Gulf States usually lacks US influence because it's a 3-stability country, and the US has easier access to Lebanon and Jordan. {...}

I'd say that underlined country get US influence quite often ( if possible ) for a particular, very important reason : except Israel and Lebanon is the only ME country not affected by Muslim Revolution. ;)
Ans as long at it could act as a bridgehead for US in ME due to this and the fact that it is a 3-stability country ...

Quote
US has influence in: Hungary{...}

Hungary seems for me one of the least played country by any player anyway ... :)

Quote
{...}Rarer still is a game where the USSR actually tries to take control of Canada, a very unorthodox way to earn an extra vp.

I managed to to this 2 or 3 times, but only after US influence there was removed by a Socialist Conspira... aaa, Governments  :P. It's priceless to add 3 INF from NORAD to control Canada !!   ;)

Quote
Either country has influence in: Bolivia, West African States/Somalia/Kenya, Norway/Sweden.
{...}These Africa stability-2 non-bg countries have no relevant positioning and you're much more likely to see Africa Domination change via a coup war than a player playing into them. Only situation that would give play into them incentive would be if one side was under Cuban Missile Crisis and therefore had to try to gain/prevent Africa Domination without a coup.

True - but I'd point that underlined African states get accesible quite easy for USSR after "Portuguese Empire Crumble" ...

Quote
Level 3: Never. (Play into these countries is technically possible but never seen. If you have seen these plays, please tell us the situation.)
{....}
USSR has influence in: Australia, United Kingdom (beyond purposes of spoiling).
Meanwhile, the USSR has absolutely no business in the UK, unless it's to prevent Special Relationship from activating because of the powered-up NATO version of the event, or the rarer situation of to remove US presence in Europe.

I disagree with you here : playing Special Relationship as a "blank card" in a US-just-controlled UK instead of spacing it is a quite common play. Beyond that - if US no longer have control in UK ( due to an early Suez while France is still "capitalism-clean" for example ) I sometime spared 1 OP in UK ( if possible ) just to further annoy the opponent ... ;)
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 114
  • Respect: +51
    • View Profile
    • Twilight Strategy
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 10:26:21 am »
0

FWIW Australia is the last country I still haven't seen influence in.  Puppet Governments accounts for a lot of the others.
Logged

Cal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +55
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 02:01:10 pm »
0

Quote
I disagree with you here : playing Special Relationship as a "blank card" in a US-just-controlled UK instead of spacing it is a quite common play.
That's what was meant by "spoiling." Influence is placed there only to keep the US from controlling it, not for the USSR to try to control it itself.

Though I must admit I never noticed Muslim Revolution did not include Gulf States as a target for influence removal. I will have to consider this in the future. (But it's still uncommon to see the US go to Gulf States.)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 08:03:46 pm by Cal »
Logged

() | (_) ^/

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
  • Wargameroom username: paddyodoors
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 05:29:28 pm »
0

It's rare to see the US place influence in China during the CCW Variant.  In fact, I've NEVER seen it happen.
Logged

Matty Defense

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 09:12:53 pm »
0

It's rare to see the US place influence in China during the CCW Variant.  In fact, I've NEVER seen it happen.

I thought only the USSR can place influence in China during the CCW variant to claim and activate the China Card?  Maybe I am wrong?

With this in mind, I am going to find ways to play into the forbidden countries!
Logged
I post a lot but I get no respect!

Nightlyraver

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 09:23:12 am »
+2

Quote
US has influence in: Romania before Romanian Abdication is played.
 

I did this once, in my last game, and here is why:  USSR just played Romanian for ops on turn 3 and I had Euro Scoring in my hand (he didn't know this since it was played on turn 1).  I played into Romania to get domination and get the 1 extra vp.  It was also the only open 3-stability country that I had access to, so I think it was worth it.
Logged

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 03:56:57 pm »
+1

Quote
USSR has influence in: Australia, United Kingdom (beyond purposes of spoiling).
Australia is the most pro-US country in the game. It starts out controlled, is adjacent only to Malaysia, is stability-4, and is located in Asia which has defcon-4 restrictions. Every USSR player dreams wistfully of attaining Control of Asia and then using 2ops to break control of Australia and deny the US any Asia presence, but this is sheer fantasy. The only possible situation I could imagine (that is, I had this suggested to me) for the USSR having influence in Australia would be through a very strange Cambridge Five event. The only other country on the board that is adjacent to only one country is Dominican Republic, and at least that's only stability-1.

I've played USSR influence into Australia!! I headlined Quagmire (so he had to discard on his AR1), played 2 Ops in AR1 to break Australian control, and then played Asia Scoring AR2 to deny him Asia presence - I scored 10 points for my domination and won the game. If I hadn't have broken his Australia control, I wouldn't have won.
Logged

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 04:02:28 pm »
0

Quote
USSR has influence in: Japan

Once, USJMDA hadn't been played, and the USSR once took control of Japan in round 9 to lock down an Asia domination. In AR10, I actually got dealt USJMDA.

What should have happened is that I headlined USJMDA for a colossal 8 Op swing in the joint-stablest battleground. What actually happened was my friend's wife told him he had to go home, so he left. :(
Logged

Cal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Respect: +55
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 06:12:43 pm »
0

I've played USSR influence into Australia!! I headlined Quagmire (so he had to discard on his AR1), played 2 Ops in AR1 to break Australian control, and then played Asia Scoring AR2 to deny him Asia presence - I scored 10 points for my domination and won the game. If I hadn't have broken his Australia control, I wouldn't have won.
I did this once, in my last game, and here is why:  USSR just played Romanian for ops on turn 3 and I had Euro Scoring in my hand (he didn't know this since it was played on turn 1).  I played into Romania to get domination and get the 1 extra vp.  It was also the only open 3-stability country that I had access to, so I think it was worth it.
Congratulations. You two found strategically valid situations where it's appropriate to do those things. That fulfills the entire list, almost.

Only thing we need now is a report of how the USSR once took control of the UK.
Logged

Matty Defense

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 09:15:21 pm »
0

Quote
USSR has influence in: Japan

Once, USJMDA hadn't been played, and the USSR once took control of Japan in round 9 to lock down an Asia domination. In AR10, I actually got dealt USJMDA.

What should have happened is that I headlined USJMDA for a colossal 8 Op swing in the joint-stablest battleground. What actually happened was my friend's wife told him he had to go home, so he left. :(

Your friend should have told his wife to wait!
Logged
I post a lot but I get no respect!

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 05:02:05 am »
+1

Quote
USSR has influence in: Japan

Once, USJMDA hadn't been played, and the USSR once took control of Japan in round 9 to lock down an Asia domination. In AR10, I actually got dealt USJMDA.

What should have happened is that I headlined USJMDA for a colossal 8 Op swing in the joint-stablest battleground. What actually happened was my friend's wife told him he had to go home, so he left. :(

Your friend should have told his wife to wait!

I know. She was saying something about it being "only a board game". To this day I have no idea what she meant.
Logged

() | (_) ^/

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
  • Wargameroom username: paddyodoors
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 09:48:02 pm »
0

It's rare to see the US place influence in China during the CCW Variant.  In fact, I've NEVER seen it happen.

I thought only the USSR can place influence in China during the CCW variant to claim and activate the China Card?  Maybe I am wrong?

With this in mind, I am going to find ways to play into the forbidden countries!

My apologies for not warning you:  It was sarcasm.
Logged

Matty Defense

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 06:51:42 am »
+1

It's rare to see the US place influence in China during the CCW Variant.  In fact, I've NEVER seen it happen.

I thought only the USSR can place influence in China during the CCW variant to claim and activate the China Card?  Maybe I am wrong?

With this in mind, I am going to find ways to play into the forbidden countries!

My apologies for not warning you:  It was sarcasm.

Sarcasm on the internet can be, at times, tough to detect!
Logged
I post a lot but I get no respect!

Tony32280

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 01:44:38 am »
+2

Level 2: Rare.

USSR has influence in: Canada.
It's rare to see the USSR with influence here for the simple fact that it would have to go through the UK and the US starts with 2inf there. I cannot say it's unheard of though, because I have seen situations where the USSR has gone to Canada, either through a very strange De-Stalinization, or through a play of The Reformer and placing influence in Canada to cancel NORAD. Rarer still is a game where the USSR actually tries to take control of Canada, a very unorthodox way to earn an extra vp.

Suggestions? Comments?

Other than VOA, Norad is a card that I hate to see come out.  Because I hate and overvalue it, I will sometimes play into Canada if NORAD has been played.  As the USSR, you can only over-protect so many BG countries.  I had a string of 10 or so games in a row where Norad was in effect.  In one game, I was dominating the entire game through turn 10.  I was on the verge of winning with around 15 VPs.  My opponent, MattyDefense, figured out that if it came down to final scoring, I would have won with 3 VPs.  On AR7 in turn 10, he played ABM Treaty and successfully couped a BG country that shifted the region from USSR dominance to USA dominance.  With the DEFCON at 2, he played 1 INF in a BG that shifted the region from USSR dominance to USA/USSR split.  Rather than me winning with 3 VPs as the USSR, the USA won with 10 VPs.  Even though it is rare to see USSR have INF in Canada, let alone control it,  sometimes you have to protect against that pesky NORAD card.   
Logged

Azuredarkness

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2012, 07:04:12 am »
+1

It seems you lost more because of ABM Treaty than on account of NORAD
Logged

Tony32280

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 10:24:39 am »
0

If NORAD wasn't in play, I believe it would have been a deadlock tie or USA victory at 1 VP in the game.
Logged

Matty Defense

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 05:10:52 pm »
0

Level 2: Rare.

USSR has influence in: Canada.
It's rare to see the USSR with influence here for the simple fact that it would have to go through the UK and the US starts with 2inf there. I cannot say it's unheard of though, because I have seen situations where the USSR has gone to Canada, either through a very strange De-Stalinization, or through a play of The Reformer and placing influence in Canada to cancel NORAD. Rarer still is a game where the USSR actually tries to take control of Canada, a very unorthodox way to earn an extra vp.

Suggestions? Comments?

Other than VOA, Norad is a card that I hate to see come out.  Because I hate and overvalue it, I will sometimes play into Canada if NORAD has been played.  As the USSR, you can only over-protect so many BG countries.  I had a string of 10 or so games in a row where Norad was in effect.  In one game, I was dominating the entire game through turn 10.  I was on the verge of winning with around 15 VPs.  My opponent, MattyDefense, figured out that if it came down to final scoring, I would have won with 3 VPs.  On AR7 in turn 10, he played ABM Treaty and successfully couped a BG country that shifted the region from USSR dominance to USA dominance.  With the DEFCON at 2, he played 1 INF in a BG that shifted the region from USSR dominance to USA/USSR split.  Rather than me winning with 3 VPs as the USSR, the USA won with 10 VPs.  Even though it is rare to see USSR have INF in Canada, let alone control it,  sometimes you have to protect against that pesky NORAD card.

I remember that game - NORAD kept me creeping around.  Turns 9 and 10 I drew AMAZING hands and Tony drew awful hands.  I really cannot say which card played a larger role in the USSR collapse - NORAD or ABM.  However, I really enjoyed the fact that I was able to slow down USSR initiative after their AR1 coups each turn.... and the final blow being able to flip a region from domination to split.

I really need to start posting some of our games so you can armchair them!  :P
Logged
I post a lot but I get no respect!

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 06:45:53 pm »
0

Quote
Other than VOA, Norad is a card that I hate to see come out.  Because I hate and overvalue it,

I hate NORAD too (as USSR of course), but at least it is cancelled by Quagmire. Also, it can be diffused by lowering Defcon in the headline.

VoA is just flat out awful, arguably the best overall US card, in terms of flexibility? I've taken Theory's strategy of playing it as US on AR7 of Turn 10 for a huge coup de grace.
Logged

Matty Defense

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 10:44:58 pm »
0

Quote
Other than VOA, Norad is a card that I hate to see come out.  Because I hate and overvalue it,

I hate NORAD too (as USSR of course), but at least it is cancelled by Quagmire. Also, it can be diffused by lowering Defcon in the headline.

VoA is just flat out awful, arguably the best overall US card, in terms of flexibility? I've taken Theory's strategy of playing it as US on AR7 of Turn 10 for a huge coup de grace.

AR7/T10 VOA is devastating... but I often find that it is worth the risk of playing ASAP it so you can get it twice.
Logged
I post a lot but I get no respect!

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2012, 02:58:38 pm »
0

Quote
Other than VOA, Norad is a card that I hate to see come out.  Because I hate and overvalue it,

I hate NORAD too (as USSR of course), but at least it is cancelled by Quagmire. Also, it can be diffused by lowering Defcon in the headline.

VoA is just flat out awful, arguably the best overall US card, in terms of flexibility? I've taken Theory's strategy of playing it as US on AR7 of Turn 10 for a huge coup de grace.

AR7/T10 VOA is devastating... but I often find that it is worth the risk of playing ASAP it so you can get it twice.
True enough. Even better is an T10 AR6/AR7 combo of Truman Doctrine then Star Wars to pick out Truman Doctrine and play it all over again for 8 inf removal.
Logged

Ioan76_TM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
  • Respect: +10
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2012, 02:27:19 am »
+1

True enough. Even better is an T10 AR6/AR7 combo of Truman Doctrine then Star Wars to pick out Truman Doctrine and play it all over again for 8 inf removal.

 :o
How is this supposed to happen as long as Truman Doctrine* get removed once it was played for event ?  ???

Maybe East European Unrest is a better choice for such a scenario - as long as it could remove up to 12 INF in such scenario ( even if all from the same sub-region ).  ;)
Logged

ddddddd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Rare situations to see in a game.
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2012, 04:57:47 pm »
0

True enough. Even better is an T10 AR6/AR7 combo of Truman Doctrine then Star Wars to pick out Truman Doctrine and play it all over again for 8 inf removal.

 :o
How is this supposed to happen as long as Truman Doctrine* get removed once it was played for event ?  ???

Maybe East European Unrest is a better choice for such a scenario - as long as it could remove up to 12 INF in such scenario ( even if all from the same sub-region ).  ;)

Oops - by Truman Doctrine I mean "Voice of America". I often confuse those two, not sure why. Maybe because they're both B&W images, and are a pain for the soviets.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.13 seconds with 21 queries.