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Author Topic: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma  (Read 11358 times)

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Matty Defense

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2012, 08:40:58 pm »
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Matt you should post the log for one of your games. Could possibly see where things are going wrong for you.

My games go wrong because I mess stuff up!  :D  Ask SnowFire!  He crushed me last night!
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Tony32280

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2012, 12:54:19 am »
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This is a lot to read and respond to.  Against Matt, I am always the USSR.  My play will be dictated if I have USA events that are defcon suicide cards.   If I have them, I might headline it or play it in AR1.  If that is the case, I will coup Iran and try to knock out my opponents out of Western Asia. 

Couping Italy on AR1 might be a sub-optimal play.  If I can knock down the INF to USA 1, most USA players will react and put the INF back in.  That is the key right there....reacting.  In those cases, I will coup IRAN in AR2 with another 3/4 OP card removing all USA INF and hopefully gaining USSR INF.  In my AR3, I will use the China Card to take control of Afghan and Pak or make a play for S Korea. 

If the USA does not react in Europe, I will give up Asia for Europe.  I might try to place INF in WGer or try to control Italy and France in AR2.  At that point, the USA will still have to react and place INF in Europe.  Defcon will be at 4.  Hopefully the USA will have placed INF in Pak in AR1.  If that is the case, I will use the China Card and coup Pak in AR3. 

If INF was placed in Afghan by the USA in AR1, then I better get lucky couping Iran in AR3 so I can have access to western Asia when I can use China in AR4.

The end result with any scenario is that I want western Asia.  If I can get Europe on the way, more power to me.  I always feel that I have the upper hand going into Asia.

Everyone expects the Iran coup in AR1.  That is the safer play for the US.  Rather than saying couping Italy is not optimal, I would say that it is riskier.  With so many US events in mid war that let's the US place INF and stack the deck in the US favor, ie VOA and Tehran, I feel that you do need to go for the kill early.  As the USSR, if you are not going into mid-war with more than 15 VPs, you will most likely lose the game. 


 
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Matty Defense

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2012, 04:09:19 am »
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This is a lot to read and respond to.  Against Matt, I am always the USSR.  My play will be dictated if I have USA events that are defcon suicide cards.   If I have them, I might headline it or play it in AR1.  If that is the case, I will coup Iran and try to knock out my opponents out of Western Asia. 

Couping Italy on AR1 might be a sub-optimal play.  If I can knock down the INF to USA 1, most USA players will react and put the INF back in.  That is the key right there....reacting.  In those cases, I will coup IRAN in AR2 with another 3/4 OP card removing all USA INF and hopefully gaining USSR INF.  In my AR3, I will use the China Card to take control of Afghan and Pak or make a play for S Korea. 

If the USA does not react in Europe, I will give up Asia for Europe.  I might try to place INF in WGer or try to control Italy and France in AR2.  At that point, the USA will still have to react and place INF in Europe.  Defcon will be at 4.  Hopefully the USA will have placed INF in Pak in AR1.  If that is the case, I will use the China Card and coup Pak in AR3. 

If INF was placed in Afghan by the USA in AR1, then I better get lucky couping Iran in AR3 so I can have access to western Asia when I can use China in AR4.

The end result with any scenario is that I want western Asia.  If I can get Europe on the way, more power to me.  I always feel that I have the upper hand going into Asia.

Everyone expects the Iran coup in AR1.  That is the safer play for the US.  Rather than saying couping Italy is not optimal, I would say that it is riskier.  With so many US events in mid war that let's the US place INF and stack the deck in the US favor, ie VOA and Tehran, I feel that you do need to go for the kill early.  As the USSR, if you are not going into mid-war with more than 15 VPs, you will most likely lose the game.

I think that you articulated my point about reacting very well which is why I cannot stand when you coup Italy off the rip.  I forces me to give up any initiative that I could have gained.

Also, I believe you were in Mid-War and had me at -18 VP and still lost.... just sayin  :o
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Tony32280

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2012, 10:25:44 pm »
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Yeah....I was at the edge of victory.  I think that was the game that Norad and the ABM final play turned the tables.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 10:27:10 pm by Tony32280 »
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darune

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 06:40:42 am »
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Well, you could play around with the empty WG setup. Eg. 4 italy, 1 austria, 2 greece or 4 italy, 1 austria, 1 benelux, 1 greece.
That also solves any blockade issues.

That being said, with the normal US setup, if the italy coup rolls 1 or 2 and fails, USSR has lost the initiative right there and from the get go in my mind.
Not only can you repair italy, you can reinforce iran to 2 ip and/or put ideally 2 into afghanistan. If he coups iran, you just continue into pakistan. If he coups afghanistan you can either recoup or go into pakistan anyway and defend against the possible coup. Remember that it is ops-wise better to defend against coups than making them (except in stability-1). Any non-bg coups could be costing USSR a lot momemtum too.

Getting USSR to use the china card on turn-1 means US can use it turn-2 and get an extra hold card for the shuffle. So cardmix-wise it is suboptimal to use the china card on Turn 1.
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Stringer

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 09:53:50 am »
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Quote
If I can knock down the INF to USA 1, most USA players will react and put the INF back in.  That is the key right there....reacting.  In those cases, I will coup IRAN in AR2 with another 3/4 OP card removing all USA INF and hopefully gaining USSR INF.

I don't think this ends up being very advantageous. As US I only need to drop a single inf in Italy since you can't coup back. I am almost certain to have more than one op to play with so this leaves me with 1-3 ops with which to expand into Western Asia or reinforce Iran.

Let's say you get lucky and I only have a two op card to work with (my hand must be really bad), so I drop 1 inf into Italy to repair and 1 inf into Iran. You then coup Iran and take it.

You've just spent two high-ops cards (possibly more, you talk about using China to coup Pakistan on AR3) to my one low-ops card to achieve an identical result to the AR1 Iran coup. If you aren't so lucky and I have a lot of ops to work with the situation gets worse as I can start making trouble in Western Asia. If any of your coups fail you are in serious trouble.

The amount of ops and luck you need for this to work just doesn't make it worth it for me. With an AR1 Iran coup you are almost guaranteeing yourself both access to Western Asia and domination in the Middle East and you accomplish this with a single card and a single AR.
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Tony32280

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Re: Setup/Turn 1 AR1 Dilemma
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2012, 01:02:58 am »
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Quote
If I can knock down the INF to USA 1, most USA players will react and put the INF back in.  That is the key right there....reacting.  In those cases, I will coup IRAN in AR2 with another 3/4 OP card removing all USA INF and hopefully gaining USSR INF.

I don't think this ends up being very advantageous. As US I only need to drop a single inf in Italy since you can't coup back. I am almost certain to have more than one op to play with so this leaves me with 1-3 ops with which to expand into Western Asia or reinforce Iran.

Let's say you get lucky and I only have a two op card to work with (my hand must be really bad), so I drop 1 inf into Italy to repair and 1 inf into Iran. You then coup Iran and take it.

You've just spent two high-ops cards (possibly more, you talk about using China to coup Pakistan on AR3) to my one low-ops card to achieve an identical result to the AR1 Iran coup. If you aren't so lucky and I have a lot of ops to work with the situation gets worse as I can start making trouble in Western Asia. If any of your coups fail you are in serious trouble.

The amount of ops and luck you need for this to work just doesn't make it worth it for me. With an AR1 Iran coup you are almost guaranteeing yourself both access to Western Asia and domination in the Middle East and you accomplish this with a single card and a single AR.

If you dropped 1 INF in Italy to gain control, went into Pakistan, and gained control of Iran, then I would give up Asia at that point.  My next play would be to play a 2 OP card and drop 1 inf in Italy so I can have access to France.  I would certainly go for Europe domination, South Korea, and Afghanistan.  As a USSR player, I don't worry about the ME that much because I can almost always coup there on AR1.
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